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In my experience blue white control decks are the most difficult to play against and consistently are likely to place high in Legacy Tournaments. But Black discard decks are the decks most likely to cause blue white opponent's (and most any other opponent) to rage quit. Every one hate's to discard except Reanimator's ;-))This deck has very few weak cards (Nighthowler is more of a group game card) but it does have major weaknesses to decks that are over abundant in artifacts or enchantments. If you're really worried about artifacts and enchantment add Nevinyarral's Disk instead of Damnation or make this deck quite a bit more expensive and put in dual lands for Plains and add Vindicate and maybe Abolish, but that's whole other deck.Still this is a great fun deck to play and will hold its own against most decks. May you always make your own good luck.Planestalker
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Oh yes. The maddening of a opposing mage. I suspect that when M15 hits, this will explode in price. Try Google "Waste Not M15" and here...we... GO!!
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What sick bastard made that card...
Thanks for for heads up about the up coming "Waste Not" card. Obviously this deck will want 4 of them.I can't believe I'm saying this but I'll probably switch out 2 Underworld Connections and possibly 2 Doomblade.And add maybe even add 4 Duress and take out 4 Dark Ritual to abuse Waste Not. Waste Not may be the new Necropotence for black discard.Waste Not - 1B mana costWhenever an opponent discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield.Whenever an opponent discards a land card, add Red Mana Red Mana to your mana pool.Whenever an opponent discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.And I thought the new "Underworld Connections" was good.
You're most welcome ^_^ I'm getting a ps too for my friend. His deck will wreck havoc once Waste Not is in
Though I have a feeling Waste Not will not be cheap by any means.
I cannot wait for Waste Not. That'll be an instant include. If you hymn and they discard a land, you have 2 more black mana open to discard more cards and either create tokens or draw cards. Imagine a hymn hitting a land to cast another hymn. Orgasmic. Though, other than hero's downfall, I do not know what to cut for it. Also, I've tried out victim of night, and it is much better than doom blade in legacy. It kills bob, deathrite shaman, and arcbound ravenger... though, if mutavault is a thing in your meta...
i would run 2 surgical extractions mainboard, simply to remove any/all threats you normally could deal with like counter spells or whatever
Pence I think you may be right. Out go Doom Blades in go Surgical Extractions. I also thought really long and hard about including Duress into main board and/or sideboard.If BUG and RUG and Delver Decks continue to dominate Legacy I think your right main boarding Surgical Extractionand even adding Duress does make a lot of sense. And when Waste Not is legal. I'll not be surprised if there will be some decks that look like this4 Waste Not4 Thoughtseize4 Hymn to Tourach4 Cabal Therapy4 Dark Ritual4 Pox!!!!3 Liliana of the Veil1 Tombstone Stalker or 1 Desecration Demon4 Enlightened Tutor2 Damnation2 Ensnaring Bridge12 Swamp4 Isolated Chapel4 Cabal Coffers or 4 Wasteland
Yes pls. I love legacy pox decks. But I'd prefer building that like an entirely different archetype.
Upon seeing you deck, I decided to upload a black discard deck I run in legacy. http://www.mtgvault.com/logazor/decks/semibudget-mbc-legacy/Take anything you like from it. Since I'm on a budget, I don't have enough for a damnation and 2 liliana of the veil, nor for 2-3 ensnaring bridges that would suggest for myself, for I'm not running nearly as much creature control as you. Bile blight seems interesting. I might try throwing some in the sideboard to test with.
Hey Logazor,I like most of your deck, but I've never been able to use The Rack successfully since they banned Black Vise. The Rack was really was fun when paired with Black Vise.I complement you on use of Bottomless Pit it is a great budget substitute for Liliana of the Veil.If money and deck legality is not object check out mymy http://www.mtgvault.com/planestalker/decks/discard-kill-deck/But since you're on a budget and probably want a legal deck please check out my Legacy budget discard deck.http://www.mtgvault.com/planestalker/decks/budget-black-discard-deck/
I hate black vise being banned. Good to know. I haven't ever actually tested The Rack before (as implied in my description). Maybe I'll cut it for either cabal therapies or bile bites as with your deck.
Phyrexian arena > underworld connections Also cabal therapy is not nearly as good without creatures you're willing to sac to it.Bike blight doesn't kill some very important creatures in legacy namely Tarmogoyf Batterskull (germ token) Tombstalker Knight of the reliquary Entreat the angel tokens (though that's rarely relevant if they've cast it you're dead anyway) Instead I would recommend running go for the throat, or snuff out Desecration demon is straight unplayable in legacy, it is too slow against combo gets removed without providing value against fair decks, and can be ignored easily by several decks. Unfortunately off hand I can't think of another creature that's playable in this deck except bloodghast he's not bad but can't swing through much.
Thanks, trollking. I still want to playtest some of these un-playables :-P
Hi Trollking21,I agree Phyrexian arena is superior to underworld connectionsCabal Therapy is in the deck because it combos with well with ThoughtseizeI did think of putting in Bloodghast, or Reassembling Skeleton, Brood of Cockroaches, Endless Cockroaches and Black cat but decided against it. Originally I had 4 Tombstalkers in the deck, but thought Desecration Demon would be ok with 4 dark rituals and 4 cabal coffers in the deck. But probably you and Roar are right it may be to slow and I think may of found the solution play 4 gravecrawler and 4 lifebane zombie in main deck.Originally I had in Doom Blades instead of surgical extraction. Guess I could go back to the way it was but instead think I'll cutting Bile Blight for Doom Blades.
Why are you running Hero's Downfall and Bile Blight? It is much too slow and lacks versatility for this format. Much better to splice with white, and add 4 Vindicate. My advise:- add 4 x Scrubland - add 4 x Marsh Flats (interacts well with Bloodghast and Tombstalker)- add 4 x Vindicate- add 4 x Smallpox (interacts well with Bloodghast )- add 4 x Bloodhast (interacts well with Cabal Therapy, Smallpox and Marsh Flats)- Remove 4 x Heroe's Downfall (too slow for this format)- Remove 2 x Surgical Extractions (it's sideboard against Delver/Reanimator/Dredge)- Remove 2 x Desecration Demons (they are too slow, and you mana base can't support it fully)- Remove 3 x Bile Blight (Not good enough in this format for main deck)- Remove 1 x Dismember (It is mostly sideboard and you have plenty of removals)
Roar I agree vindicate is a great card, but I am deliberately keeping this deck all black lands so as to avoid nonbasic land destruction from Wastes lands, Rishandan Port, etc...Hero's Downfall isn't too slow with 4 Dark Rituals in the deck.Originally I had 4 Tombstalkers in the deck, but thought Desecration Demon would be ok with 4 dark rituals and 4 cabal coffers in the deck. But probably you and Trollking are right it may be to slow and I think may of found the solution play 4 gravecrawler and 4 lifebane zombie in main deck.
Rishadan port doesn't care about basics.
Oops your right trollking Rishandan can target basic lands.Should of said Blood Moon and other nonbasic land hatred.
Go for some Shrieking Affliction
Hi Aetherlingling,Thanks for the comment.Gave quite of bit of thought to including both Shrieking Affliction and lilanas caress and I choose card flow over damage. This deck just doesn't cause the opponent to discard enough cards like a bloodchief ascension/mindcrank deck does. The discard in this deck is to help get out big fast creatures and hopefully help keep them alive until they do enough damage to kill the opponent.
Fair enough then, consider Liliana Vess though. Her -8 is basically Rise of the Dark Realms, and her +1 is discard (for both players unfortunately) and her -2 is a diabolic tutor
Took out 1 Liliana of the Veil and put in 1 Liliana Vess. Long Live Liliana!!!
but... veil is just... i... i think i love her...
there is one card i dont see listed that should automatic in any discard deck lillianas caress!!! and another option is the rack
Hi Pence,Thanks for the comment.Gave quite of bit of thought to including both Shrieking Affliction and lilanas caress and I choose card flow over damage. This deck just doesn't cause the opponent to discard enough cards like a bloodchief ascension/mindcrank deck does. The discard in this deck is to help get out big fast creatures and hopefully help keep them alive until they do enough damage to kill the opponent.
http://www.mtgvault.com/simicmartin35/decks/microdeck-zoo/
Personally I'd take Extirpate over Surgical Extraction. It's a great feeling to extirpate a counterspell out of somebodies hand when they have the mana to use it but split second is preventing them from casting it. :) As well Sewer Nemesis is a good creature for this deck abiding that your opponent doesn't play Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void.
Hey ManiacalManiac,Thanks for the input. Have switch in Extirpate. But I don't think split second will do what you say it does to a Counterspell cast from hand.Oracle rulings6/7/2013 Casting a spell with split second won't affect spells and abilities that are already on the stack.but 6/7/2013 If the resolution of a triggered ability involves casting a spell, that spell can't be cast if a spell with split second is on the stack.Your idea of Sewer Nemesis is interesting will have to play test. Remember TrollKing and Roar both shot down Desecration Demon as being too slow even though it only cost four mana (2BB) and Sewer Nemesis also costs almost the same (3B). What do you think do you think 4 mana is too much for a creature in a deck with 4 Dark Ritual and 4 Cabal Coffers and 16 Swamp in a Legacy Duel?
Possibly at a competition lvl going up against combo decks but I don't agree with that otherwise. Sorry if I did not explain myself better about the extirpate. If an opponent has a counterspell in their graveyard already I simply meant it's nice to cast extirpate and remove another from their hand. Split second prevents them from playing the second one.Another point in my opinion any mono black deck needs to take advantage of tutoring and needs 1 disk to take care of enchantments and artifacts
This is my mono black control deck along the same lines. http://www.mtgvault.com/maniacalmaniac/decks/black-control-graveyard-power/It does very well against many of my friends powerful decks. Mind you my circle of friends play casual vintage but none the less it's a lot of fun.
Hi ManiacalManiac,Took a look at your deck. Yeah your deck is nice with all those vintage cards (Vampiric Tutor, Sol Ring, Mind Twist, etc...) but I'm trying to keep this deck Legacy legal. The Night Howler is very interesting I wasn't familiar with it. It might help Hypnotic Specter survive for a few hits.
completely understandable. I really like lightning greaves for that as well. Another thing I didn't mention and wanted to ask. Do you play with 4 coffers often? gotta remember they aren't befitting you until you have 4 swamps in play. If ever have more then 1 coffer before 4 swamps it's completely useless since they don't tap for colorless mana. I would run 2 coffers and 2 bubbling muck instead if your finding the need for more mana fixing.
1 word: URBORG!!!
Hi Logazor,Your 1 word suggestion lacks clarity. I seriously doubt you are recommending Urborg Legendary Land{T}: Add {B} to your mana pool.{T}: Target creature loses first strike or swampwalk until end of turn.or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth EnglishLegendary LandEach land is a Swamp in addition to its other land types.but your suggestion did set my mind to racing what is the best land in Legacy?I suddenly I rememberedVolrath's Stronghold EnglishLegendary Land{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.{1}{B}, {T}: Put target creature card from your graveyard on top of your library.Have added 3 Volrath's Stronghold and taken out 3 Cabal Coffers
Oh. Well, it's the Tomb of Yawgmoth. I was just hopping you'd read my mind and infer that. A little asinine on my part, but you're a planeswalker, so it shouldn't be too difficult for you to do. Though, making your mind race is much better than giving a suggestion. So, maybe it was for the best. OR you could assume whatever answer to the answer I gave--an answer that raised the question to be answered--as being whatever you prefer. All in all, have a fabulous evening, or morning, or whenever.
Thanks for reminding me to put Volrath's Stronghold in my 2 mono black decks. Don't forget it is legendary and legendary rules aply. I was running 3 shrine to nyx in my devotion deck and it ended up hindering me more then benefiting. Something to keep in mind.
Hey ManiacalManiac,Oooooo! Forgot Volrath's is Legendary. Take out 1 Volrath's put in 1 Swamp.
Yeah try shrieking affliction, black vise, and the rack to kill your opponents
The deck seems a bit too much focused on discard and creature disruption. Most black control decks utilize Pox-build to also attack land base. http://www.mtgvault.com/roar/decks/pox/As it is now Stoneblade/Deathblade/Death&Taxes will most likely wipe you out with Batterskull. I can't see that you have anything to properly counter that.