...I also love him.

I can show people how the deck works, I can even show them good stategies and why each card is in there, but to actually teach someone how to "play" Extraction is essentially impossible.

Blood Scriv is there (as opposed to Bob) because of how he grants me card advantage and even more so, when. The difference in life loss between Bob and Scriv is pretty marginal, with Scriv being the slight winner, but that isn't why I chose him over Bob. It's a choice of explosiveness versus consistency. It's not actually about getting the 2 cards a turn. It's about getting those 2 cards after I've played out everything right away and need to keep up the pressure with some answers. They're very interchangeable, but I've found that my way of doing things works better with Scriv than Bob in most cases.

Thanks =]

I know what you mean about Chant. I've tried to cram a third one in there, but just can't find a place for it. It was dropping down to two Grasps that made the curve shift in a way that made me also decide to change out Trinisphere for the second Stax. I'm glad I made the decision though, that second smokestack has made a big difference, and puts less pressure on my ETs.

It's a truly beautiful design, I can not stress that enough,

There's really nothing you can do to cram one in there, short of minutely diluting (and yes I did that on purpose) by adding it as a sixty-first card. The idea of dropping to two Grasps was one I already supported, but using that as the reason to drop Trinisphere wouldn't have crossed me. The second copy of Smokestack makes a very noticeable difference, and using Blood Scrivener of Bob makes it very gentle on life.


This design, and the humor that's been demonstrated on this site, makes me really want to call Blood Scrivener Robert Loggia.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnsS8l1uqVU

Well Tormod's Crypt actually wouldn't work very well alongside Extirpate and Surgical Extraction. The deck, of course, gets rid of as many threats as it can from the opponents deck. Cards like Seek and those two that let you search the opponents deck let you find out exactly what you need to remove with Extirpate, or if Iso Seek/Psychic Surgery will be enough...As far as I know that is.

Very well put Dag, an excellent explanation.
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/8/27/9/anigif_enhanced-buzz-21038-1377609058-2.gif

You just about hit the nail on the head there Dag.

Effects like Extirpate and Seek are like a surgeon's scalpel, whereas Tormod's Crypt is like a chainsaw. They both cut, but one's precise and the other just makes a mess.

Point taken =) Still a kickass deck =D

Now THAT is a tough question. It really depends on the situation and the deck you're playing. I typically keep it at one or two and RARELY three. It might not seem like only one or two would make a difference, but believe me, it does. The main thing is to always be sure you're comfortable with the number of Soot counters on it. Smokestack is a dangerous card for both players, so don't let it kill you because you're trying to put too much pressure on your opponent.

i see now, thanks for enlightening me on the always awesome smokestack.

I hope I'm not the only one who sees how clever this post is.

Absolutely you can use psycho probe. It's a great card for extraction (even though none of mine use it haha).

You can't copy tabernacle because it's legendary. Even though thespians stage begins as a different land, when it copies, it copies the legendary aspect as well, so you lose it.

Extraction searches out cards from the opponent and removes them from their deck. That's the most basic definition of the archetype. However, rarely can you win by just removing cards...at least not without support. Iso-Seek, which is what this deck is, uses a lot of special cards to lock up the opponent while you pick apart their deck. Another kind of extraction, PAL, is more of an aggro deck that removes the opponent's defenses. Extraction is a means of keeping the opponent from winning, not necessarily a means of making them lose. Extraction wins because the opponent can't =P

You know, Psychogenic Probe would be an interesting option for a Poxtraction variant using Bitter Ordeal and LIving Death like the old PAL did. At maybe one or two, it could really be a viable option.

And at your final point, "Extraction wins because the opponent can't" That is why these things, and Stox, have become a thing on the vault; we all seem to have a sadistic streak when it comes to competition.

PAL still uses Bitter Ordeal and Living Death actually. And yeah, being the most dependent on damage of the three, PAL would make great use of Psycho Probe. It could even kill someone outright.

And I agree. I also think people find fascination in the idea that you can win not by actually "winning" per se, but by the fact that there's no feasible way you could lose =P

Thanks for the info guys. I took a look at swn's PAL decks and then created one with Psychogenic Probe based on the ones you made. Even though I probably wouldn't play it well, would you mind taking a look at it and seeing if it would work or not?

http://www.mtgvault.com/bestofcolbs35/decks/psychogenic-pal/

I would call that "My crazy friend"

I JUST figured out the joke there Dag. Psycho PAL, or "Crazy Friend" =]

Most people would quietly accept and let that go after realizing it over a month later, but not you.

Yes, not us.

This deck handles decently well given a hand that's usable, but to be honest I keeled over hard to Affinity when I play Sure's style of Iso-Seek Extraction. The main survival tools against aggro are Meekstone, Blind Obedience, and Seek. Meekstone with Blind Obedience will outright win you games against Fish if resolved, but against Maverick, or Affinity? Seek recouping your losses is the only way to make it from my experience.

I know I'm not Sure, but I'm bored, and can't fall asleep due to insomnia ._.

Jens basically nailed it. I've never really had too many issues with Maverick for whatever reason, might be luck idk. The entomb package also helps a bit...So does Tabernacle (which you can fetch with the entomb package).

As for Affinity...yeah I mean Kataki helps to an extent, and Tabernacle can absolutely wreck an aggro list if played at the right time...but Extraction, especially Iso-Seek, has always had a rough time with Affinity. If you're really into playing extraction, but there's a lot of Affinty in your meta, I'd say give PAL a try and/or add Katakis where you see fit.

I'd like to add that Iso-Pox can actually do some amazing things against Affinity oddly enough.

So against affinity I guess it would go (from best to worst) PAL, Iso-Pox, Iso-Seek, and then the assorted lesser forms of extraction.

Well yeah, Tabernacle does great things against any deck that plays creatures period though. Entomb I'm not entirely sure how you mean to employ in this build.

Kataki is pretty epic, but Dispatch is now a thing :| the Affinity players I know all run three maindeck*grumbling*.

Iso-Pox actually has a spectacular time against it, but more so, Parfait Extraction laughs at it. The Energy Field setup is the best thing since Glacial Chasm, and playing Extraction from behind it means I pretty much automatically win against Affinity if I take out Tezz XD
I don't actually know how I feel about PAL being there. It has a good time against Affinity, especially if you manage to pull off Abrupt Decay on Isochron Scepter, but it has such a dependency on the big Pox effects for kill, that I just can't agree fully.

Dang that's a lot of response in not a lot of time. And I figured that affinity would be trouble. A friend of mine plays legacy affinity and I've yet to beat him once. Unless it's a group game or I just get lucky and keep bouncing the big hitters (and I mean very lucky)

And meekstone + blind obedience is something I use personally in my casual trading post deck just to drive my friends up a wall. It works great once it's out but getting both pieces is a bit tough sometimes.

Entomb, Noxious Revival, Orzhov Charm (maybe) + Stuff. I'm actually considering dumping the Charm for a second Revival...

I sort of count Parfait in the realm of Iso-Pox. It's like that weird fourth member of the trio that everyone forgets to mention...Like how "Y" is sometimes a vowel, but yeah it does some silly things to Affinity...which makes me happy.

Nobody can agree on PAL =P

I could have sworn I posted something about why I'd support a second Noxious Revival vs Orzhov Charm, but apparently not... I'll get back to that eventually.

It is indeed like how "Y" is sometimes a vowel, but the way it just simply ignores aggro decks is so great to me.

This is true. I'm probably wanting to play it too much like Pox, and not giving enough attention to the other aspects.

That's the idea.
https://i.imgur.com/0OAS6Hj.gif

It's when you know what it's trying to do that you should be sorry.

No seriously. >: (

It's designed to systematically remove threats and win-cons from the opposing deck before they can be played. It's called an Extraction deck because it "extracts" the cards from the opponent's library. An Iso-Seek design, like this one, uses the interaction between Isochron Scepter and Seek to do most of the work. Eventually the opponent's deck will be entirely gutted and basically rendered incapable of winning. Then it's just a matter of milling the opponent out, them scooping, or on rare occasion, killing them through combat damage.

Thanks man! Very interesting. How viable is it? Are there equivalencies to "extraction" in other formats? Again, Thanks! :D

Careful.. You might feel bad after winning with such a creation... When surewhynot inspired me, I quickly learned that it is the deck-building itself where the fun lies ^_^

It's viable if you know what you're doing...otherwise you will have a very hard night. And yes, as the description explains, it's an oddly unsatisfactory feeling when you win with extraction...

The deck type almost exclusively exists in Legacy, and to a lesser extent, Vintage.

I'm sure there are things that could work in edh. I'm sure.

Well, yes and no. The inherent versatility of an EDH deck means precise extraction like this would have little to no effect. However, big brutish forms of extraction (massive Bitter Ordeal, sacking a butt-load of dudes to thoughtpicker, etc.) do work to gut a deck.

Bitter Ordeal, Bitterblossom, Thoughtpicker Witch, and Earwig Squadron are all great picks for Black in EDH. I also find Dimir Charm quite delightful in the format. Other than those though, or perhaps Sadistic Sacrament, I wouldn't really be inclined to test the idea of Extraction in EDH.
Thoughtpicker can really be just brutal though, it's amazing what one can do with her, and simple recursion.

I've been doing some experiments with it yes. So far, I haven't found any variation that benefits Iso-Seek designs like this one. Iso-Seek hasn't really gotten too many new tools for a while. This deck is as good as it gets in my opinion, and I worry if Iso-Seek doesn't get a new tool soon, it could fall behind the other two in the unholy trinity. PAL, on the other hand, is getting almost too many new tools, and these new cards are allowing (I think, this is the reason for my testing) for new tricks with some old toys. I love fiddling though, so this is helping bring me out of this post-Khans slump.