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Updated pretty happy with this build side might need work Just mixed up the list a bit i feel this build will be most resilient other then my last build i am gonna do a lot of play testing with it i might swap back to my last deck list. I might drop the Lilianas from the side I added a wurmcoil since i pulled one from a pack and the other grave is needed for my pod side board has been altered gonna fine tune it a bit more SO i just went 3-1 at tonights fnm i forgot my marrow shards at my house so i didnt have my "complete sideboard" so i had to toss in extra stuff so i go owned by inkmonth =X i am very happy with this deck tried to convert my uw control into a solar flare build i am not running Liliana's so gideon has her spot if there is any big parts that i am missing please let me know i am still working on the sideboard. Update 11/9/11 shifted some stuff around sided the surgical extractions added one alchemy and one doomblade added Karn to the sideboard messing with land base testing ghost quarter added 2 ghost but to keep duel/basic balanced dropped one drowned cata and glacial fortress toying with the idea of 4 of each regular duel land or 2 regs 2 SoM lands Update: pulled one gideon for another unburial rights trying to figure out what removal to run doomblade vs dismember trying to make room for a frost or grave titan sideboard done dropping consecrated sphinx to side board gonna play with frost/grave main board New This is my first deck to make it to the up and coming page =D dropped Gideon for Liliana and dropped a o ring for Elesh Norn Updated again mainboarded the surgical extractions and sided a mana leak and forbidden alchemy UPDATE: Front page =D
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not any big parts missing, but my comment on this solar flare style is that you need higher draw power if you're not running Liliana. her role was to push players to hellbent their decks, so if you run a full 4 of Forbidden Alchemy, your big supports to it are Unburial Rites, Sun Titan, and Snapcaster Mage, and you currently aren't running 4 of any of the others. I like your addition of Timely Reinforcements here- very abuse-able and an easy way to gain creature advantage, though i'd say a Dismember or two would do nicely to deal with any Vault Skirges you happen to see (also consider the fact that Liliana also provided the "Opponent Sacrifices a creature effect" may want to be substituted for a Tribute to Hunger). I would also say that you might want at least one stompy big creature like a Grave Titan or Frost Titan. something that's big and only gets more dangerous as they stay on the field.
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Don't run Liliana. It's a) too expensive and b) you don't want to ever be tapped out on turn 3 unless you're oblivion ringing something unimaginable (shouldn't be on turn 3). This is a draw-go deck, where you wait w/ mana untapped for them to play, and if they pass, you think twice or forbidden alchemy on the end of their turn. Sideboard ideas: celestial purge, revoke existence, stony silence, surgical extraction (tears your deck to shreds, btw). Look at my solar flare build to get some ideas. I've had some success with it at FNM. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=248790
Add at least one more unburial rites, it helps the deck so much.... Oher than that, you seem to have everything you need. +1
Consecrated Sphinx is cool, but you've got plenty of card draw in Think Twice and Forbidden Alchemy. Cut the Sphinx and add your finisher (Grave Titan, Elesh Norn, etc.).
After some play testing i agree i had lots of draw even when i didnt draw sphinx. I would run Elesh Norn but, i cant phantasmal image her so i think i am gonna try frost or grave.
Yeah, phanstasmal doubles as titan chain and removal (copy legends). You shouldn't need to copy elesh, for when she comes out, she sweeps the board on her own. Copy their creatures beforehand, or sun-chain your images in later. That -2/-2 sweep is devastating.
Yeah i tossed in an Elesh Norn for a timely reinforcements after playing I realized i can just snap them back since i see them WAY to much with 3
Toying with the idea on dropping an o ring and timely for 2 geist of saint traft for something else i can take out with sun titan but not sure if i want to give up the life gain and removal..
Geist is a real fun card, but it's more janky than anything else in this deck. This deck needs to control and be able to survive the first 4-5 or so turns. To do so, you NEED those timely's and o-ring's. Geist is fun, and it's fun to bring that business back with the sun titans. But by the time the sun's are out, you really should be working on finishing them with your sun-phantasmal chain. You start attacking when they're helpless. They're helpless because you've slowed them w/ timely and exiled them w/ o-ring. But if you go w/ geist, let me know how it works.
I decided to toss them in the side for my next FNM i will let you know if i get any uses out of them thinking of tossing all for of my doomblades/go for the throats for 3 Dismembers and 3rd snapcaster mage what do you think?
I'd suggest to remove Geist out of your SB. Instead add 1 surgical and 1 day of judgment. You really want to have your control when it is up against aggro. And it isn't really a suggestion or anything, but you should try to get an Wurmcoil mixed up in your deck. I run it in mine, and trust me, with Phantasmal Images your opponents will hate themself. Simple said, easy combo goes as following: Wurmcoil > Phantasmal > Target another Phantasmal on your Phantasmal Wurmcoil. This concludes. - 1 Dead Phantasmal, which you can get back with Grave Titan. + The other Phantasmal is an Wurmcoil and you gain the 2 tokens nonetheless. It isn't really much of a combo, but it does the trick quite a bit. Trust me. Take a look at my Solar Flare deck? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=251170
If i can get my hands on a wurmcoil he would be in for sure the geist were to play with but instead of a 4rth doj i am running a 3rd timely on the side along with a 2nd surgical, another nice trick i do is to image my snapcasters to take even more stuff back from my graveyard =D
phantasmal doesn't target... It says it comes in as a copy of a creature. No targetting involved.
thinking of dropping an image for a wurmcoil not sure if that will make the deck slower or not because the images and copy and crazy early game stuff
i like your list, man. this list -- as you probably know by now -- is slow as ____. so, adding wurmcoil doesn't slow it down a bit. in fact, it's turn 6 that you first want to start playing threats. turns 2-5 you control your opp., force their hand, and then come at them when they're out of answers. if you can afford it, get wurmcoil. honestly, i'd drop liliana for a wurmcoil or another forbidden alchemy. she taps you out turn 3, allowing for them to play their threats unchecked. your untapped mana on their turn (even w/o a mana leak in your hand) is enough to make them play around the idea of the leak. this deck is based around forbidden alchemy. your graveyard is an extension of your hand. put stuff in it. if you're bent on planeswalkers being in this list, try the new jace. he lets you draw and drop stuff in the graveyard. i just put on in my list. i'll let you know how it playtests.
Thanks man yes it is very slow, but as for Liliana i rarely drop her on turn 3 unless it would be "smart" she was able bring a pretty good human deck to its knees almost by herself, with that being said i view her as a removal other then a planeswalker slot in my deck because of her -2 her other abilities are icing on the cake, i am trying to find what to take out for a 4 alchemy although i didnt have a problem just running 3 but i would love a 4rth i am toying about removing an unburial rites because after playing with the deck i saw them all the time so i might swap 1 for the 4rth alchemy
I don't see the need for the grave titan. The sun titans are much better. Perhaps add one more sun titan or another big nasty.
Grave titan is a bomb that gets scary if they cant do anything to him since each turn he drops out 2 zombies and if Elesh Norn is out then their even more awesome, Sun titan is good but i personally dont like to run more then 2 of the same bomb i like to mix it up every now and again
Yeah actually you have point. I see how Grave titan can be a huge threat if they don't immediately deal with him, Especially with elesh out. Forgot about him. Okay, so I wont underestimate Grave titan anymore.
Never underestimate Grave Titan
Truth i am playing right now with the idea of dropping a image for a white sun, wurmcoil, or even a 2nd grave titan, i just cant decide because its crazy how good phantasmal images really are!
Don't drop the sun-phantasmal combo. that's even better than the norn-grave combo. Great deck. I think you should feature more removal overall, though.
I would love to add more but i cant figure what to take out vs what to keep the surgicals i feel could go on the side but i get to much use out of them i will say sometimes there a dead draw verse some decks
Yeah, the extraction would be first to go. That way you can bring you're doom blade count up to 4.
That's a really nice deck. Please check an comment mine: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=230572
This is a nice deck. But I've beaten several decks EXACTLY like this one with my new creation. It cripples your graveyard play, but more importantly, it doesn't matter how many day of judgements or timely reinforcements you play, I will probably still have more board presence. Just check it out. It might help you figure out how to plug the leaks. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=257678
Lol i was thinking the same thing about yours when you posted it this morning, it really just comes down to who has what in their hands and what they dont, if an aggro deck doesnt get going fast enough on me then i over take them and ratchet bomb can clear a lot of your stuff too
1 thing: good old sunny can bring back lilly needs the demon tutors from m12 (1 down, search for a phantasmal image, to phantasmal image that, to phantasmal image it again, to phantasmal image it again, and then get a sunny to bring back a lilly, and have them sac a creature, i say at least 2 of the demons Lilly's price decreased de to supply and demand, supply is now going up as time goes by, thus the price will go down because not as many people will need them, so id say wait a while on the lillys, and at the rate wizards was going with banning, i feel like it might be joining jace
I dont think they will ban a card that just came out, sure jace was ban but he saw almost his whole life span of standard and like 70% of the pro decks ran a play set, plus he was a million times better. also if they ban cards based on the price then all of the planeswalkers that come out right off the bat would get banned, venser, koth, garruk primal, chandra firebrand, and i believe tezzoret were all 50+ when they can out so why would they ban one and not others
because it is beccoming heavily relied on in a combo deck, thats the only reason why lilianna is different than most of the other once, although koth was run for a decent amount of time, valakut was eventually banned, some part of the combo will probably become banned at some point
Unless i am mistaken Valakut lived its entire standard lifespan
minus the last month, and is banned in modern, and the combo didnt appear till halfway through it's lifespan anyways, lilianna's was decided before it was even released
Your success has motivated me to jump on the Liliana boat with my Solar Flare (despite several warnings to the contrary). Does your deck do okay with just 4 mana leaks? Do you draw into them early enough in the game w/ any consistency?
Check that..*3 mana leaks, not 4. Does your deck do okay with 3 mana leaks?
Its been doing okay with just 3 leaks and 3 alchemy i took out one of each for surgicals that were originally in the side i pull them out if my match up doesnt require them, sure mana leak is good but i figure taking all of there manaleaks, doj, marrin crusaders, inkmonths, brimstone volleys, etc was just took good to pass up in game one
As i said above i view Liliana as a removal spell not a planeswalker i would never tap out on turn 3 unless its the smart thing to do ie invisible stacker is out and your opponent just dropped a sword/flail also i sideboard her when i play against red wins for my other mana leak and alch on a sidenote about mana leaks imo they blow late game when both players have lots of mana so i hate drawing them late game
You need ghost quarter. Just a suggestion, but against wolf-run, inkmoth, etc?
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I am gonna test with 2 mainboard i had the shards on the side for inkmonths and atm i feel my mana base is perfect
Shards doesn't stop inkmoth with a sword :I.
thewuest is pushing those ghost quarters pretty hard :) yeah, good call on the liliana's. in testing, they're a 1 more mana, beefed up geth's verdict. unchecked, well, we all know how that goes. and i'll study reducing mana leaks. i don't know if i'm comfortable with mainboarding surgicals, but it could prove useful in a lot of match-ups. good ideas.
the surgicals were on the main to test with i do like them on the main but i am gonna be sided them soon to test how 4 alch and karn will do i as of right now the surgicals spots are gonna be an alchemy and a doom blade i think
Ps i am testing karn to see his usefulness in mirror matches
Karn, eh? So you're turning this race into a full marathon. :) Seriously, though, if you can play him, and get him going, then goodnight.
Yeah he is strictly for mirror matches i just got one for a good deal and hes not bad
So I was thinking about putting Curse of Death's Hold into my sideboard, problem is my decks are too aggro-y to get up to 5 mana fast enough. It looks like your deck could probably handle the card in side though, lemme explain why it's good. BB3 for an enchantment curse - All creatures your opponent controls get -1 -1. This is good because it completely shuts off inkmoth, which is usually a win condition for most decks in the later game. It can stop mono-black infect decks by shutting off the inkmoth, killing any of their 1/1's (plague stinger) and turning phyrexian into a 1/1 First strike for 3. It also can shut down most token decks. Elspeths ability just became useless... Reinforcement of the army became a life gain spell.. and mikeaus become a W1X instead of WX. I'm sure there are reasons to not run this card at your fmn, but if either infect or tokens is popping up a lot, it might be a good idea. Thanks for reading through my rant btw if you are in fact still reading.. I have seen many players just scoop to people playing this card. Just a suggestion I thought i'd throw out.
Have you thought about vapor snag in the sideboard (or even mainboard). It's a B instant that you can use to a) return a threat to their hand b) protect your creatures or c) use to activate snapcaster's ability again for 1 extra mana. I'm siding some. I'll let you know how they work out.
I have to agree vapor snag would be a good addition to the deck but i don't know what he should remove.
Hmm its okay... it might be okay on my side for when i go up against other black heavy decks because doom blade is a dead draw then, yeah i might have to try them out, my problem is i would rather run disperse since it can do enchantments, artifacts, and planeswalkers too, but with that being said you cant really argue with 1cmc to save yourself in a pinch, i might play around with vapor snag thanks for the idea
the name just spits out dragon ball z krillen so much that i can not even focus on the deck =) congrats
You do know solar flare was Tien's move
another interesting idea i've seen in a couple of solar flare lists: Hex Parasite. give this deck a 1-drop, eat counters off planeswalkers, artifacts, creatures, and get called back by sun titan if you need it. might be worth siding.
u should add in a couple of Nephalia Drownyards. They work nicely in a solar flair deck.
Nice. I like it. I personally would side the ratchet bomb. I see it working really well against tokens. But yea I would side those 2 and add either 2 jaces archivist or snap Mage. Or 1 of each. Check out my build and let me know what ya think
if i had a 3rd snap i would run it, and if i were to run a 3 drop i would run my mirrans from the side, archivist is a dead draw if you have card advantage
True. I love crusader. I sided him in tonite against wolf run and be went to town on it. Tapping out for him did lead to a resolved simalcrum, but after that it was just swing counter swing counter. Have u play tested dead weight? I think it's the next thing I might play test.
No because for three reasons i find it a waste in my deck is 1) sure its okay early game but there is not really any big 1 drops in standard that require me to kill that i cant doom blade turn on turn 2) late game imho its a dead draw and 3) i cant snapcaster mage it, sure you can sun titan but I would pull back a oblivion ring with him
I had made a "solar flare" deck some time ago however it's a little different, but it fares fairly well against things like tempered steel http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=247392
yea i gave the dead weights a try and didnt like them.