Jund World Eater

mistcutter is only good against blue variants, and belongs in the sideboard.

lol, you don't know what you're talking about if you think that Mistcutter is only viable when playing against blue.

Yeah. I love tapping out for a dude that gets chumped for days by Elspeth tokens. Mistcutter needs an empty board or a blue opponent to be worth a mainboard spot. there are much better options for the mainboard.

not everyone will have elspeth though because not everyone has the luck or $$$ to have her, and of the ones that do, most only will have 1, MAYBE 2. the main reason i love mistcutter is because he has haste. i consider being uncounterable a bonus

Oh so you're one of those people that say a card sucks based on a single situation, ah okay.

drakeraenes is correct. Haste, can't be countered, and has potential to be a massive creature if played correctly. You can't say a card is only good for one use or sucks all together just because you can say that the opponent can kill it. Like this: Elspeth sucks, you shouldn't have it in your main deck because someone could use Hero's Downfall or Dreadbore.

no, youre one of those people who cant see that a card doesnt go in every deck just because you like it. the card is fine on an empty board or against blue players. I have said it multiple times. there is no reason to run it in the mainboard, because it is bad against black decks, and small creature stratagies. Good thing there arent any black decks around, right?


Drake- yes, elspeth is a fringe example, and admittedly, a late game one. there are plenty of token generators that people will have no problem trading a token to block a x/x hydra. there is no trample in this deck, so Assemble the Legion, Young Pyromancer, Precinct Captian, Brimaz, Elspeth, Xenegos(PW), Pack Rat, ect ect ect, are all cards seeing play right now, and all completely invalidate Mistcutter.

idiots like mcjordalini who dont add anything to the conversation except "oh youre one of THOSE guys" and "Its good because i like it and my mom thinks im pretty" make me laugh.

you mad or something guy ? did i say it belongs in every deck ? i don't believe i did, however ... i do believe we are discussing THIS deck.

again, all the cards you just mentioned i can use your logic on: "X card sucks because it can be beaten by Y card so don't put it in your deck.".

naturalize > assemble the legion
doomblade > young pyromancer
doomblade > precicnt captain
doomblade > brimaz
dreadbore/ hero's downfall > elspeth
dreadbore/ hero's downfall > Xenegos planeswalker
murder > pack rat

you make a lot of assumptions, kid. I AM discussing THIS deck, and Mistcutter does not belong mainboard in THIS deck. Im not using this imaginary equation you have dreamed up, I simply said it is bad here, because the metagame has a ton of non blue token generation. my formula is more like "X card belongs in the sideboard because Y, M, N, C, Z, B cards trump it game one and make it a brick unless a very specific set of circumstances come up"

Im sorry you didnt get enough love growing up, but trolling the internet wont make daddy hug you more.

i never said it was worth keeping in here mcjordalini. it depends on one thing: what sees play where you are. most of my frineds play casual games, and most run modern tribal decks, so i dont normally get to use big guys like hydras because they load their decks with tokens. on the flip side to that though, decks i run with big guys usually have some form of trample or more direct damage. ninjastyle isnt wrong or right in saying that it wont work here, because he is looking at it from a competetive standpoint, while most other people will likely see it from a kitchen-table point of view. it is up to the player to determine if something is worth the overall inclusion into a deck.

Running Mistcutter requires Nylea on the field.

I have to agree with Ninja here. IF you were to include something to let Mistcutter trample through, he might be worthwhile. But then he is demanding resources that could be spent elsewhere. I would think you are looking for a turn 3 or 4 swinger, so have you considered Ghor-Clan Rampager? I know it doesn't fit the hydra motif, but he does still suit the deck fairly well. The other option I was thinking about, if this is meant for more casual play and not competitive environments, why not throw in a couple of Corpse-Jack Menaces? It would double your money on your hydras.

The debate for Mistcutter got out of hand lololol

Ninja isn't completely wrong about it being a sideboard card; the issue is though that just because Pro players make best use of it in sideboard they are dealing with different decks, different meta etc. So just because it is typically a sideboard card doesn't mean it needs to be a sideboard card at all times. I think we learned this with Thoughtseize, modern it was side occasionally main, at first they were typically more sideboarded now we notice they are best main, then again you typically need a deck that isn't taking damage from shocklands or has some lifegain. Ultimately Mistcutter is typically sideboard, doesn't mean it needs to be, there may be better cards but what? Fanatic of Xenagos.. maybe but it's a 3/3 maybe a 4/4 for 3cmc Mistcutter can get big and better than that and has haste AND doesn't allow your opponents to make the best choice for them. Desecration Demon... maybe but maybe not, it can be a shit card, worse than mistcutter at it's worst, if they have the right board position etc etc

I think that we have established two things.

He wants to main mist-cutter, but also wants to make it viable.

There are PLENTY of ways to make it viable, for as little as one mana!

Rancor?
If your hydra is killed then it goes back to your hand, and if IT gets destroyed then, it just goes back to your hand. you don't really want to be playing this against while, there is SOO much enchantment removal in white, also in green but it doesn't have AS MUCH at instant speed...and you already said in your meta most instants and sorcerys are reserved for stuff that produces tokens?

the deck is standard. rancor is not.

I would argue there's not enough Polukranos in the deck. Running 4 is optimal for most R/G monster decks and this one is no exception. Being legendary means nothing. If your polukarnos doesn't die it means you are ahead in the board. It it dies you have more to play. Honestly you should take a look at this list from cedric phillips TC. He posted an extremely sweet Jund Monsters deck.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27933_A-Different-Letter-From-The-Editor.html

I think the issue with looking at this deck (the one you posted a link to) and then abstracting that 4x Polukranos is good is probably not the best way to look at it. Looking at the number of creatures (26) and then Domri (4) he should actually be getting some benefit from Domri's +1, with the additional gas of creatures pulling an extra polyk isn't a huge deal. Here you need to be drawing relevant threats and answers consistently. While the Underworld Connections help to smooth out minor errors adding into the the negative factor is probably not a good idea especially in regards to what needs to come out for more room. Land?: Probably going to cause more inconsistency than need be aka more likely to do harm than good in the long room. Other creatures?: only makes the factor of not having relevant cards to use a bigger issue. Kill? Sure it can kill something on it's own the kill here has valid reasons for existing and polyk will add to making the deck more mana heavy and less effective at board control.

In whole I believe 3 of would be a maximum for this deck in particular (and 2 is probably just fine); further add on that the posted deck is a "test deck" aka doesn't really have any solid results to back up the choices or anything. I've seen pro decks flop that are decks like this, ones posted in theory but without real evidence of how they work in true practice.

Yeah sure. Just ignore the fact that if you look up ANY R/G monster build that runs polukarnos runs 4. I guess pros don't know a single thing. I mean why else would they consistently make results. But instead of going into an argument how about you look up top 8 R/G decks and check to see how many polukranos are in each of them. I bet you will see 4 each time.

You really jumped on me, and for really no reason. I was trying to construct a simple, respectful, and professional response.

Again I see your point, yes many G/R monsters deck use 4 polyk, and then something like 45-50% running 3 polyk. However what is something we can take away from my original statement that still tends to hold true in G/R? You tend to be less reliant on each creature because they have more of them; the lists I was looked at were roughly 28 creatures and several copies of Domri. Alone the number of creatures in comparison to a deck with 18 (20 with xenagos the god) is enough to support the minimal loss in efficiency and power for them where it could mean a more substantial impact here. If you have 18 creatures, 4 polyk and you end up with a polyk in play, 1 caryatid, and draw 1 polyk you are worse off than an opponent with a polyk, burning-tree, domri in play and a polyk in hand. This is a possibility when you are relying on less creatures and need pretty much all of them to make the impact necessary; think of Jund Mid-range prior rotation you could end up with 2-3 thragtusk in play, and 2-3 huntmaster in play, now if they were legendary it would have been a huge issue and the deck would not have preformed the same. Now if you go "well Olivia was a legend" I would say "Yes, but she was typically a 3 of and the biggest target because 1 hit removal dealt with her not to mention if she survived you more or less won". This of course is still without the mention of Domri providing fairly consistent gas in the form of creatures which isn't something as easy to do with this deck; please note this isn't G/R monsters even if the initial idea came from that direction. Further we should investigate the ability of this deck to keep polyk alive vs G/R monsters; while this isn't a huge factor it's worth some consideration. Jund will have thoughtseize, and possibly slaughter games and/or golgari charm to protect a resolved polyk better than G/R can, cause as far as I know G/R doesn't really have protection like G/B/x does.


So I'm not saying 4xPolyk doesn't have a place, I'm saying the difference in styles of decks can make a difference in how you need to evaluate things. Just because Jund Midrange (of old) used 4x bonfire doesn't mean that any deck running red, even something as close as jund aggro, needed to run even any copies of bonfire. Your argument seems to be based on the capability of a deck to cast a card in turn rendering that card as immediate addition and likeness to a deck that could be fairly different.

i think he would prefer xenagos for the ability to buff his hydras fairly easily. if it werent for that, i would totally say go with domri

xenegos, the planeswalker, is not as good as domri would be here. xenegos, the god, is excellent in any deck that wants big dudes

The planeswalker almost serves as an easily killed enchantment that makes a 2/2 haste creature every turn. That's not really that good for this deck.

its actually usually a 4 drop dark ritual....which is also not very good here.

I have never seen Xenagos +1 outside of draft . . . just saying, I play him as a token maker and lightning rod.

you need to play more then, because the +1 on Xenegos is very good in many situations.

with enough weenies out, xenagos can ramp into his god-form that right there is a board i would love to see

I did initially have xenagos in for his ramp ability, making tokens is nice, but having the capability to essentially play for free is really nice. Looking at it in Modern's view, I think I like Domri in the main and I'll keep a walker xenagos in the sideboard.

I said this in my comment but I don't think that Domri is the best card. Domri may provide some support here but typically you want to have something like 22+ creatures (at a low) and this is typically in G/R decks that don't have the kill control (while he fight ability can be more useful in other decks) and using a walker for their ult in general is just a bad idea.

Xenagos could be a decent walker here but again you still don't get a ton off of the ramp ability to make it worth it. Underworld Connections, Whip of Erebos, Rakdos's Return all stand to make more of an impact.

This brings up something I forgot was lacking. I wouldn't want to run Jund without R.Return (personally cause I love the card A LOT)

True, I love Return as well.

zhur-taa ancient takes too long to get out and it benefits everyone, so that would also make his opponent able to speed up their strategy. savageborn i think could be a viable alternative to mistcutter, primarily because of the double strike. chumps wouldnt do you much good vs that

was sorta my thought, i personally like zhur-tha because even though it is for everyone, when you're playing a hydra based strategy he makes them just that much more of a threat, especially in partnership with savageborn if you can give it trample, though i do agree that his mana tends to be a drawback

In a meta that sees Sphinx's Rev loaded into tons of decks, I would leave Zhur in the SB if anywhere. Giving someone game one because they SRed for 14 would probably not justify trying to get a hydra through their control. I would take Savageborn over Mistcutter in the main board any day, but the Poluk is a strong defense against a lot of threats. It will be slamming through white decks and Master of Waves all day.

yeah dont even joke about taking out polukranos. ive played a buddy's modern green devotion and watched him activate his monstrous for 34. my entire field vanished in an instant. poluk is hands down the best hydra in the game in terms of sheer brutality

he has the potential to be the scariest, but honestly, not many a deck type are going to be able to generate 69 mana to do crazy damage with Polukranos that way, most that you're going to monstrosity with on average is at a max 11-13 mana, plus mana gen maybe giving you an extra ten mana or so, making him a 16/16 without trample, you just killed 5 3/3's without killing polukranos as a side affect, now that's turn 13

whereas in that same time, i could have a primordial hydra on the field (which can hit at turn two as a 1/1 if i'm feeling brave, which in the group i play with is usually the way to go) and by turn 5 (presuming turn two drop) it'll be an 8/8, turn 6 it gains trample and becomes a 16/16 and it's only downhill for your opponents from there, by turn 13 when polukranos just went monstrous, primorial will be a 2048/2048 with trample.

Not to mention Kalonian Hydra, who will make all your other hydras double whenever it attacks.

And the even better part is that neither of them are legendary, so there could potentially be four of each of them on the field.

Honestly, I while building the deck I didn't think much of fly protection in the mainboard. however, I feel like I have SB answers to things such as stormbreath if spot removal doesn't take care of him

just SB plummet 1,G and by target fly instant. handles dragons, annoying specters (only fly in deck typically UB) and its as they play it you answer it now while they are tapped out.

the chances of having a plummet by the time stormbreath hits the field are slim at best, unless you run a full set. if you do that though, you run the risk of drawing a second or even third and killing your draws that couldve been something more useful

so...dont run one, because ts not enough, but dont run two because its too many? thats horrible logic. Plummet is a tier 1 green removal spell that deals with threats that freen cannot normally handle, such as Desecration Demon and Stormbreath Dragon. Most top end GR lists have one or two in the board.

im not saying dont run one, im just saying dont run too many until you know what you are up against, if at all. not everyone will have flyers that are a huge threat

you dont plan a sideboard for what your opponent has, you plan a sideboard for the threats that are being played in a metagame that you have trouble beating with the things in your mainboard. Desecration Demon is very difficult for RG to deal with

im looking at this from a more casual viewpoint as opposed to a very competetive based outlook of standard. i dont often use sideboards mostly because i dont do competetive matches. if i did then i might consider them more

if you do not use sideboards, then dont offer advice on them. ignorance on a subject doesnt help anyone.

fair enough

True, Bile Blight basically kills most of my little guys on the spot. However, really the only losses suffered from Bile Blight are the mana dorks and burning-tree. Pack Rat and Scavenging Ooze can both avoid it. I see your point though. I'll make a few add-ins.

I like the Cerberus, but running it also kills scavenging ooze past turn 5 (if Cerberus gets played then)

I feel like if you went Cerberus route you end up hugely in a different direction and would be a total rewrite on the deck.

3 Mystic (ramp)
4 Caryatid (ramp)
3 S.Ooze (3 because of cerberus)
3 Thoughtseize (deal with threats you otherwise couldn't if resolved)
4 Hero's Downfall (best kill for creatures and planeswalkers)
2 Abrupt (good filler kill, deal with d.sphere, domri, etc)
2 Mortars (blood baron hate)
2 R.Return/Sire (One or the other, good hand hate and power)
2 Mogis (b/r god, dmg or sacs, more likely to get devotion than Xenagos)
2 Vraska (for whatever reason, I'm still not big on vraska but it seems she has a purpose)
3 Stormbreath (good power, and haste in the air)
2 Underworld Connections (help fuel the deck)
2 Cerberus (kind of the fun power in the deck that could make a big impact)
1 Whip (lifegain and recursion)
25 Land

Yeah, I think you're about right there

I think you'd be better off going more Mid Range, keep the mana dorks minus Burning Tree, and up the threats like Kalonian Hydra and Exava. Fill up your library with either threats or removal, which means less PWs, i.e. Garruk and Domri. I would also consider Fanatic of Xenagos and the inclusion of Ghor-Clan Rampager. All of which are great for Pack Rat pitching which also means Underworld Cerberus becomes that much more powerful to reloading your hand. I'm going back to Jund because the metta is going away from UB control and Exava K Hydra combo is too good and on curve.

^ failed Doge meme attempt

Many fail, such wow!

Not hating or anything though

Honestly, no attempts. Not a fan of Doge. Just bein' sincere. The word 'such' existed long before that internet abomination.

I suppose if it was an attempt, it would have been a fail, haha

Back to discussions about the praise & development of the deck. Thanks.

im not hating. just making a funny

Thanks, I really appreciate that. I've made a lot of list changes on here throughout the day off of the suggestions and I think you have some really solid points

Thanks, and before someone points it out, I said pro green on Mistcutter, I think we all know it is pro blue. I can make some really dumb mistakes when I let my fingers start do the talking while I do the thinking.

true, I just let it slide lol. But I felt a lot the same way about domri at first, I just don't really like the way she feels at all.

As far as sideboard cause I feel like just throwing it out there: Golgari Charm (HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE AGOADIGHADOGASI GHAEO; stopping wrath, killing master of waves, kill d.sphere, whip, spear, any weapon, killing some "enchant creatures".), Slaughter Games (taking out sphinx's rev). There are probably others but now I'm forgetting what else I was going to suggest or whatever

Like the way the deck is shaping up though, keep it up

kalonian doesnt benefit from xenagos at all until he is decent sized, and he only uses a few hydras so he isnt worth the space needed to add him. corpsejack isnt necessary here because he doesnt focus on +1 counters, so including him would be a waste

Xenegos(god) turns a Kalonian into a 12/12 when it attacks the first time. Kalonian is ALWAYS decent sized.

yes they do use counters, but thats not what the deck is designed to do. if it were meant to focus on counters then he could be running many different things in here that assist in that regard, but unfortunately most of the good counter producers in standard right use blue, with only a few exceptions like heroic creatures or reverant hunter.

Couch, Kalonian swings for 12, not 16. the Kalonian trigger does not double its power/toughness, only the number of counters. The xenegos ability makes the Kalonian an 8/8 with 4 +1/+1 counters, and the Hydra ability doubles the counters when it is declares an attacker, adding 4, making a 12/12. not shabby at any rate, but just make sure youre making the right calls on triggers.

Eh, my bad, either way, it's power is more than ten and it has trample.