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This isn't a teir deck and likely never will be in any form without a few more cards that can push it over the edge. This is a style I love playing and I like to be out of the norm as you will see as you read about my selections. That being said almost all these cards are true 1-2 drops so the curve is really a lot better than it looks. Why I like this deck, it deals with many things easily as well as continually, counter magic against creatures isn't always great (except if I were to fully delve my yard), It can win out of nowhere, and it's not common in the current meta. I will explain my card choices as well bellow (although I'm sure I'll miss some things. Creature (22)4 Gravecrawler- 1 drop to kick vengevine and can be cast out of yard (usually stays on board and doesn't get blocked for this reason. 3 Gurmag Angler- big fatty that can be a cheap cast, also a zombie for crawler, and kicks ferocious. Another nice thing is you are more likely to get one or two of these path to exiled early than a vengevine so you can still keep board presence later in the have through vengevine tricks. 4 Lotleth Troll- discard engine as well as a regenerating blocker, can become a fatty fast, and a zombie to kick crawler as well. 3 Satyr Wayfinder- Gets a land and mills cards as well as counts toward creature cast count.4 Snapcaster Mage- when running more spells than average this guy becomes much better, looting for a 1U/R with a body is always better than 2R and no board state considering if you have one extra mana you could be looking at kicking vengevine(s). 4 Vengevine- the bases of the deck (although I wait a bit longer than most to try to full attack. Kicks ferocious and apart from exile it can be very stubborn to deal with. Instant (14) - all get better with Snapcaster Mage!2 Abrupt Decay- great removal that can't be countered. 3 Grisly Salvage- great for filling yard and being able to hit land drops. I'd like to stay with 4 but running more spells 3 seemed right. 2 Lightning Axe- deals with opposing anglers/tasigurs/goyfs (normally) as well as filter our hand if we can't dump a creature webers to. 3 Stubborn Denial- great counterspell for us. Early it deals with sb hate of our opponents and late it's just a hard counter to response we might need to answer to keep our board state. 4 Thought Scour- instant speed card draw, delve fuel. Again I run 3 because I can't control what hits my yard like I'd like to but there is a flex spot for a 4th that's an option. Sorcery (4)4 Faithless Looting- best filter card we have already has flashback so we can double on its value but just gets cheaper when you're flashing it back off of Snapcaster and Snapcaster will count as your first creature drop to trigger vengevine. Land (20) - still a work in progress debating cutting down to 19 and running the 4th grisly salvage (better for ensuring a land drop) or thought scour cutting a blood crypt and dropping down to 2 red sources. one or two non island blue producers could be nice as well to get around choke and boil (sulfur falls, darkslick shores)2 Blood Crypt2 Breeding Pool1 Forest1 Island2 Overgrown Tomb4 Polluted Delta1 Stomping Ground1 Swamp4 Verdant Catacombs2 Watery Grave*Sideboarding*Sideboard is always changing with meta... This deck has an ok matchup depending on draws with a lot of decks. Sometimes you need to be aggressive and go for the kill quickly and others it's ok to wait a turn or two and set it up to where you have a little removal/counter backup. There are many many ways to go with your sideboard and if you have questions or suggestions please leave a comment and we can discuss it. For this list I like to try to stick more toward instants and creatures to get the most value possible out of them. Also keep in mind blood moon is very real after game one. Ancient GrudgeDispel/swan song/spell pierce/Stubborn DenialGolgari CharmKolaghan's CommandLightning AxeMurderous Cut/go for the throat/terminate/dreadbore/Abrupt DecaySpellskiteSurgical Extraction (most players hate this card but it can hose certain decks) relic of progenitus is fine then too. Thoughtseize/Inquistion/Ravens crimePlunge into darkness/gnaw to the boneAnd many many more options*Notable exclusions to the deck*Hedron crab- I personally just find the blind mill in my version to be bad (the 3 thought scour at least get me a draw). That and crab on turn one to die to a bolt is useless I'd rather have thought scoured and we all know how common bolt/terminate/abrupt decay are right now and it's likely not a secret you plan to mill yourself knowing how popular the delve mechanic is these days. A plus to crab is it can be faster for filling your yard, and if you are a variation with more creatures such as Bloodghast and Skaab ruinator (ruinator is really bad without crab) this can be great. Bloodghast- while great and can push damage through like a champ I often found myself taking them out to board in my stubborn denials, so I just cut them and freed up even more room in the sideboard for utility cards. Hard casting for BB just stunk so that's a reason too. Lightning bolt- although it's a moder staple it is rather week in this deck. Dredgers- for the same reason I don't like the crabs I prefer to not run the dredgers. Although they fill the yard fast and you can return them for casting I still prefer to filter cards into my graveyard. I would run a life from the loam though over others right now. Mutavault- running four colors prevents this sadly. *Cards that intrigue me* Hooting Mandrills- (another delve creature but with trample, but not a zombie and tasigurs ability does matter) Rise // Fall- (both modes seem like they could be useful I just wish it were an instant)Liliana,Herectical Healer- (if it weren't for costing 1BB this would be amazing in here)! Perhaps testing her in place of tasigur for a bit. Languish- sweeper that leaves up our fatties and let's us recast our crawlers to kick vengevine back in seems great in the sideboard against some smaller decks (collected company)
There are a few ways you can go about playing decks like this. You could go all in as fast as possible and try to swing for the win as fast as possible, and some matches you will do just that. However I prefer to sit back a little and try to use my mana on my opponents turn whenever possible. So if I have a thought scour I'd prefer to play that on my opponents turn and wait for a little info before using my looting. Everything is about mana efficiency so you should base your plays accordingly no matter what route you go. So for newer players that means using as much of your mana each set of turns as possible. The thing to remember is you aren't going for the turn 2 angler, you're looking to play a little later game and hit angler as the finisher/midrange guy with counter/removal back up or a 1 of 2 creatures cast bringing an army with him.
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Well thought out and you know how the deck deals with little speed bumps.
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Have you thought about including Varolz, the Scar Striped? Even 1 might be nice.
Scavenging what? The big guys would cost way to much and the price/pay out of the small creatures would not be there.
Hm, good points. It was the first thing that came to my mind when I thought of a graveyard deck, lol.
Varolz only works in dredgevine decks with Death's shadow. I like this version of dredgevine but it's still not as good as the original with loam, Bloodghast and golgari grave troll. One other problem is that the manabase for this deck is risky, 4 color decks have a problem noe that there is a lot of land hate in modern vs amulet bloom and tron. The addition of blue makes the deck worse, even with good quality cards. Anyways, still good to see people try to makes decks with vengevine, love the card a lot.Edit: here is a link to the deck that I use in modern events, works great for me. :)http://www.mtgvault.com/kingholldder/decks/this-aint-mtg-its-dredge/
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The "original" lol when is the last time a dredgevine had any sort of decent finish anywhere? Therefore saying one build is better just has no merit, even more so having not tested anything yourself. Splashing red comes at very little cost once mana base is squared away.
What do you mean having not testes anything yourself? I tried many dredgevine decks, some dont even play red and just play BUG vine, but I dont like hendron crab. What im trying to say is that this deck misses some parts what makes Dredgevine a strong deck. Like not giving a **** about counterspells and removal. So why weaken the deck with stubborn denial?
There are a lot of things denial hits. Just because the deck can keep recurring itself doesn't mean it's easy. We still have to have the ability to cast 2 creatures and that sometimes means we need a zombie on the battlefield and the correct ones in the yard. Things aren't getting easier either with hallowed moonlight coming down the pike. Cryptic commands are running rampant again as well and backed by snapcasters they can lock us out of attacks for enough turns that it doesn't matter haw great the army is if it's tapped down. Not to mention the anger of the gods and terminus type effects that you can run into. Also people comboing off early can be stopped thinks like coco, goryo's, early karns/ugins, splinter twins turn 4, shall I keep going? Taking 1 turn off from being total aggro and stoping these big plays out of nowhere (as you can see against a deck where your opponent sees a vengevine in your yard they are just going to go for it) can just win you a game by catching them off guard.
In that case you better add logic knot as wel. The issue that i have with this deck is that it's more a combo deck than an aggro deck. You need your yard more than other dredgevine decks and it's a lot slower. You talk about snaping a cryptic command, that's atleast turn 6. By that time the opponent should be dead. And after sideboarding having acces to discard and land destruction makes it almost impossible to get play cryptic. Murderous cut has been working out great stopping twin decks for 1 mana. Issues vs tron? Awnser: loam + ghost quarter, has won me many games. Adding ways to sacrifice your creatures deals with anger and terminus. And what do you have to race aggro and burn? A charm and some counterspells. This deck is just too slow. Faster dredgevine decks don't have a lot of these issues. Loam + ghost quarter vs amulet, tron and control. Gnaw to the Bone vs burn. Bloodghast makes your deck faster and Costa nothing to rev. And the greatest dredge card ever printed: golgari grave-troll makes dredgevine decks so great. Winning with 3 lands in play, that's modern dredge.
Where does it say it's an aggro deck. Did you read anything that is written on the page?
Dredgevine is the main deck I play, and it works best as an aggro deck, not saying that you cant play it otherwise. But it has the highest chance to win early so you don't get locked out of the game.
I played "regular" dredgevine for years it got boring so I've been playing this more control build. The first paragraph of my write up should have told you that it is more of a brew. I explained why I don't like a lot of the cards in the "normal" build so I guess i don't know what you are trying to say.
Maybe Taigam's Scheming instead of Thoughtscour?Gives you more control what gets into your graveyard and sets up your next turns, doesn't net you a draw though.
Sadly it's sorcery speed and cost 1U
Hendron crab might work and can block that annoying 1/1 token that got left behind. #SatyrWayfinderOP (dealt 6 damage in a standard game in the scg open a while ago.)
If you aren't going to read what I wrote just stop commenting. I discussed Hedron crab already. I've thought about satyr in place of salvage but I'm not sure it helps being that it isn't a zombie and would only get me a land. Not letting me cast the second creature could be rough.
Sorry, missed the part about hendron crab, mb. Also im not saying to add satyr, it was just an example for the blocking part. Only thing that I realy don't like the the electrolyze, it's three mana, when do you ever cast that and do something usefull in the same turn?Edit: removed auto-correct caps
Rarely it's a test as a 1 of for later game interactions. That's why it's stated as a test card slot. It likely won't stay but I do hit a lot of land drops and it's not a horrible card by any means.
Wouldn't a 4th salvage work better? Or is the damage part too important?
I think 3 salvage is fine. I have 3 flex spots right now 1 land (I think if I drop electolyze), tasigur, and electolize. Tasigur will likely go back to my 4th angler, electolyze will likely be thought scour, or salvage as I think I'm ok with the 3 denial main for game 1 and that would leave room for the other or a Snapcaster if I decide to go with the 4th thought scour. Drawing cards is still very important to me.
It may be sorcery and 1U. Still seems rather practical for this deck. Can speed things up considerably as you can selfmill up to five cards or just put them back in any order optimizing your next turns.
Yeah but I don't want to spend two mana on my turn if it's not to cast a creature when there is so much I can do at instant speed in its stead.
You could also fill the flexslots with the origins jace, the snap-looter-walkercreature thing.
To slow and too weak as a walker for my taste.
You could also add molten vortex, also an origins card, gives the deck some reach. I might try to make a new loam deck, it looks like a very good card to me.
i'm not currently running loam so it'd be really bad in my build as i want to hit my land drops.
Loam is not a must for this to be good, that is why it's so good imo, its a flexible card. Because it's one mana its easy to just play withouth wasting your turn. Afcourse you dont want it when your short on lands, but turning exces lands into shocks is great, it kills a lot of good modern creatures like, clique, delver, dark confidant and also smaller creatures that you dont want to spend a abrupt decay on. You can even shoot your own creatures to protect them from exile removal. Best part is afcourse discarding 4 lands and just shoot your opponent in the face for 8. You could always just add one copy and see if it works.
Clique is really the only use you listed that it'd be good against. Delver you need to answer early when you also need to make your land drops and bob I have so many aggro creatures that he has a hard time out running these type of decks anyway.
lol love the deck hey if you could help me on a bird tribal that will be cool :b
Stormcrow x4?
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Cool deck, and really like your breakdown of it in the description.
Thank you!
yea me too dude. i remember 4 years ago when uncle istvan called me again i had to kill the zombie fish too. if u have problem with zombie fish i recommend the mosquito poison with some fresh whale blubber. works everytime when i stroke my uncles beard in bed. hah those were the true days. gotta say that i am realy impress by your land count, i usually just use 5 lands cause thats all i need basically, but i see ur not lucky and gotta use 20 lands, heh lotto tiket amirite??? anyways i gif suggestion i tell u that snappcaster is pretty bad (not evn won legacy torunment XDDDDDDDDD) so use emrakul instead, u know to invest lategame my cowboy.
back in the day, people would sideboard rest in peace against graveyard based decks. now, no1 does, because for some reason even though whole meta is about greaveteyard now with the new "delver" mechanic, people dont give a shit. that siad, i think bery god dek imo, gets creature with hasto pasto very erly with op tutors n shit- may god bless ur'e souls
I disagree, I run Rest in Peace in every S/B which has access to white. It shuts to many decks down not to run it. I certainly can't be the only one with this opinion.
Yeah a lot of people still run yard hate. While I agree it's usual relic it is still everywhere in the format.
Yep, game two sucks with decks like this and ktrojan is also right about relics, as you can drop them T1 game two meaning they don't get hit by thoughtseaze, whereas rip does. This is also the same the the leylines though as they come out turn 0.
Nice deck it's right up my alley in the brew/play what you want department. I just lost last night to those stinking zombie fish, apparently milling your opp 5 cards on T1 so they can drop a fetch and cast one on their T1 is a bad idea. LOL
Yeah mill seems bad in modern now with the delve creatures everywhere.
Actually I think I may have figured it out by splashing white. Not only for Path, but a few choice S/B options like Rest in Peace.
I feel like a small child at a shop window. This is the deck I want to build, and atm I have only 6 pieces of it. T-T what do you reckon I should buy for it first? Btw I have the lol trolls and the charms... That's it...
Snapcasters and lands, the rest is cheap and less versatile.
I guess this deck deals with bloodmoon with abrupt decay?
abrupt decay, counterspells, charm, thoughtseize and it can fetch enough basics to be ok yeah
This deck really confuses me... its like when people rage about people adding red to the bant heroic decks.... having access to the early game burn is great to deal with the rabble red decks that are becoming so rampant, but it also makes the deck allot less focused... Its almost as if the meta is making decks that should be focused allot worse by making them HAVE to have more answers to those decks.... It really makes me think the meta is getting a little unhealthy... especially in standard..