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(The deck can has many variations as the cards in the sideboard can make a new deck themselves because of the way the deck plays.) The deck came to me after I made oriss an equivalent to silence. The entire purpose of the deck is to use oriss's grandeur effect multiple times through cards like macabre waltz. (The deck can also be played in green as that color also brings oriss from your graveyard to your hand.)Best Field/Lock Possible:Oriss + Grand Abolisher + Palace Siege
Try to get an oriss into play and at least one in hand to then start denying your opponent of playing spells and attacking with creatures (you will need multiple oriss cards to continue to use her grandeur ability which allows cards like waltz to come into use). Finally, protect oriss and your life total through grand abolisher, and kami of false hope. You have A few cards to help you draw and most times you will bring back kami and/or street wraith through your cards like waltz to help you draw and/or stay in the game.
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Wow!! Thinker,This is one crazy rube goldberg machine. I applaud the innovation, but I can't help feel Isochron Spector + Silence or Orim's Chant and Island Santuary is so much easier. Only thing that I think might help your deck is Phyrexian Reclamation. May you always make your own good luck.Planestalker
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Thanks. I'll see what I can do.
Problem with those combos is that your opponent can destroy scepter on your turn.
They can just kill your creature in response to the trigger of grandeur...Until it resolves they can still cast spells...
That works for each turn also...a 4 card soft lock isn't that great.
I know it's no the best, but you get better recovery than Scepter combo because you keep bringing your creature's back. the combo also resolves just as early as them as two out of the four cards needed aren't necessities. I never really thought this deck would get much attention so I've been lazy with it and just ignored it. I will however, Stop bring so lazy and do my job as a deck builder. I'm sorry to all of you who wanted better decks as now I will give them to you.
I need an idea that can improve the deck first before I can actually start changing things...
Don't get me wrong it's a nest idea, just fragile and a 4 card soft lock.
Viagradino, please be more specific (for my edification, sincerely)...what is so fragile about it? Oriss isn't the only "shut down" factor...there's also Abolisher & Kami, & the ability to bring them back...over & over again. I freely admit, I can be both blind &/or stupid t times (the former, the result of getting older, the latter, probably genetics), but I seriously don't see what is so fragile about all this...ENLIGHTEN ME!!! (please)
Dang you got my point across much better than I would ever do.
So lets look at this from a modern standpoint.The combo needs a 4 card soft lock to be in place.So this means your opponents need to do almost nothing to allow you to get the lock going.The creatures you're going to be attacking with to slowly win the game aren't exactly beefy, so dealing 1-3 damage a turn gives your opponent tons of time to draw answers."but they can't cast spells you say"That isn't true, they can kill abolisher on their turn, and they can kill oriss in response to the grandeur trigger.While it will stop them for that turn, it will only slow them down from winning.All your creatures(besides street wraith) die to literally any instant speed removal...On top of that this deck is ALSO weak to graveyard hate which is fairly abundant in modern.It's just a really fragile combo, it's better to stick to 2 card combos like knight of the reliquiary + retreat to coralhelm or the more common ones like splinter twin etc.Even those decks have MUCH more room for disruption and protection.
I know what your saying. Also, just give me time and I will make the deck better than ever. Finally, the deck is a two card combo(just Oriss with Abolisher).
Thinker that was more aimed at puca asking how it was fragile rather than your ability to create decks.Magic needs creative minds, while not every deck you make will be a gem(like any of us) people like you who dare to think outside the box are the reason magic stays fun.Even just recently two great decks have emerged in modern thanks to minds like yours (Eldrazi processor and knight of coralhelm combo). And if budget is ever an issue you can always test it out in a non budget build on xmage or cockatrice.
Edit: double post
Oh I see, I suppose I was a little confused. Well I got my point across (I think). Thanks for understanding!
Raise Dead has the same effect as Disturbing Plot for B (& is also Modern legal), so maybe...? As always, cool concept, & I'm a fan of seeing Grandeur abilities abused. +1!!
Thanks I'll look into raise dead. Also, your really good at your job.
Aegis of the gods might fit instead of Street wraith in my opinion. The cycling ability just isn't worth the cost of the card at 5 mana. But here is my question. What is your Win condition? you have a plethora of cards to prevent damage but your opponent will still have a battlefield full of creatures. So how do you win the game? I feel like you could just stalemate the game for a very long time and make the opponent want to quit. But it's just a matter of time until he is one step ahead of you or you are 1 card off.
I was thinking the same thing. Sorin's Vengeance could replace sign in blood.
Fir the win condition I think I'm going to need some card so thank you for allowing me to realize there isn't one.
I tried making a G/W version around the Grandeur Lock idea. Threw in some other combos that seemed to work well. Lemme know what you think!http://www.mtgvault.com/puncakes/decks/cheap-spell-lock/
wow this deck really denies your opponent to play anything. I like the combos
Yeah but it's not the only deck to deny your opponent from playing Magic.
Yep especially the turn 0 win deck that got banned recently
You mean Flash Hulk?
This deck is terrible to people. I love it! Have you tried adding Silence to help deny till you can get the lock running? and the win con is just swinging with arbiter right?
You know I never thought of using Silence in that fashion. Thanks for the suggestion I'll surely have to try it out! And yes you are forrest about about just swinging until you win. Once again, Thanks for the suggestion!
You need to run Infernal Tutor to pull clones of Oriss; and or Beseech the Queen/Diabolic tutor. Palace Siege seems strictly better than that awkward conjurer's closet nonesense you're running. 1 card fills the role of 2; so you've brought the lock down to 3. Also copies after the first of Palace Siege provide a win condition. ; also consider undertaker.
I would be running Beseech and Infernal Tutor, but the issue I have with Infernal Tutor is that it is very expensive and I like to keep decks as budget as possible(Heck, I'm even disappointed with this deck because it runs over $35). I also feel like Beseech aside from it's cost(in $) can be replaced with a three mana transmute card. However, Palace Siege is an amazing replacement for Conjurer's Closet, and because of it the credit of the deck belongs to you.
These suggestions assume a Modern legality: If you need to run a suite of Budget tutoring cardsDimir Machinations - Black - Transmutes for 3 - Gets OrissBrainspoil - Black - Transmutes for 5 - gets palace SeigeTake out Macabre Waltz, the card literally does nothing for the deck. You should run this deck potentially on a Turbo Fog shell - i.e. run symmetrical card draw. Howling Mine might get you where you need to be, along with more Fog/Silence effects. Because once you have the Oriss Lock, you don't care if they are drawing 3 cards a turn, because they can't play anything. Also run 4 x Mana tithe, because the card is phenomenal, also consider 2 of lightning greaves to protect the Oriss.But I maintain Undertaker is the star powerhouse for the deck, it turns every draw into a raise dead, which is far more than a deck running 4 raise deads could hope for. early mid game it turns every draw into the necessary fog (i.e. Kami of False Hope), and once you get the Oriss'es it starts recurring Oriss every turn, until you draw something which nets you more cards.
Dang man thanks. You really know how to play my own deck. Ahaha.
Athreos could be an option maybe? wouldn't hurt with Kami if you went down that route with the deck, plus the devotion wouldn't be hard to hit
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Nice! I see a few problems, though:* Most importantly: The mana base. You probably wanted to keep the price tag of the deck down in order to get noticed, however, in this case I don't think it'll work out. The Palace requires double-black and Oriss double-white, I just don't see this happening. Statistically speaking you'll have that in play after drawing 15 cards, which would be about turn 8 ... you absolutely need some duallands or other mana fixers. Come on, you don't have anything productive to do on turn 1, you can afford to run some of the cheaper duallands that come into play tapped. Temple of Silence is a good pick, the Scry helps you finding combo pieces and it is down to about 1.5 dollars!* Most decks run instant creature removal and you have no way to stop that. Sure, you have ways to get Oriss back, however, all your opponent needs to do is killing Oriss in response to you using it. You may get it back during your turn but if you replay it, it will have summoning sickness and can't be used for a full turn. I recommend something like Lightning Greaves. It not only protects Oriss from most spot removal spells (creature removal instants are typically targetted spells), it also gives Oriss haste, so should you need to replay one, you can use it right away!* This is again a deck that runs no removal whatsoever! You can't possible think that your opponent won't resolve a single spell ... something WILL enter play. And there are creatures out there that don't need to attack to be dangerous, same is true for enchantments, artifacts and planeswalkers. And let's not forget lands! Lands aren't stopped by your combo at all. This depends on your meta of course, in my meta man-lands are a common sight. But in either way I would add something like Vindicate, obviously something cheaper than thatm money wise. Utter End, Anguished Unmaking, something like that.* IF you ever get rid of the budget restrictions and for some reason add fecthlands ... then you could replace some of the Raise Deads and/or Macabre Waltz with Grim Discovery.And here a great suggestion:* Both Oriss and Grand Abolisher happen to be clerics. I would add Battletide Alchemist, probably instead of the Street Wraiths ... with those you get a lot less damage and aren't hellbent anymore to stop the opponent attacking every turn! Together with Oriss' other ability these creatures alone should be a hard nut to crack!
I don't think the deck relies on using Oriss' tap ability -- So the SS is not relevant. The main concern is a well placed path to exile or some graveyard hate. Battletide alchemist is DREADFUL compared to the wraith; the wraith is played to effectively make the deck 56 cards. Consider also Mishra's Bauble or edge of Autumn in this same vein. I think if you're casting the wraith, EVER. you're pretty dead. Temple of Silence is a good idea; would also consider the guildgate or Scoured Barrens; not great, but not bad. The deck is medium to high curve out for the deck to really get running maybe Orzhov Signet.This deck currently has no tutor effects. This means the deck will necessarily die before it does anything productive in like 90% of games. Please add 1-2 Idyllic Tutor and 4 Dimir Machinations. The Machinations will find copies of Oriss, and will find the Idyllic tutor which will find the Palace Seige. Consider playing those over playing the 4 Sign in Blood. Also Raise Dead is literally jsut bad in here. You;re unlikely to be playing it early on, and later on you'd rather a card with a little more kick to it. Consider Recover for the card draw, or Soulless Revival for the fact its an instant and has splice; which allows you to use two of them together should you have two before you need to cast 1.
I was under the impression that this deck is meant for casual. This assumes longer games and slower starts. While that doesn't justify a manabase like this it does allow you to play something like the Alchemist. Street Wraith, however, looks out of place here. As you said you are not suppose to play it, you want to cycle it. But this isn't a combo deck or tight tempo deck that reallly benefits of of having 56 cards. Moreover I doubt you can afford to pay that life!
Um... You realise what you just said was interally inconsistent; either its a slower format, in which case you can pay the life; or you can't afford the life and the format is relatively fast. And casual is not a reason run cards which are irrelavent; its just means you'll play suboptimal spells comparative to competitive decks (eg slower removal, or less efficient creatures). And this is a combo deck; it's literally a 3-4 card lock down (seige-2x Oriss-Abolisher).The alchemist is most of the time going to sit unplayed in your hand; or just be a worse Guardian Seraph. You'd prefer a spell that did constructively helpes you get the lock going.
We have different defitions of "casual" then.And the "can't afford to pay the life" was mainly due to the fact that this deck also runs 4 Sign in Blood and 4 Night's Whisper. Thinker has probably included them in the deck to get them back via Palace and cycle them again. But that's 12 necropotence like carddrawers without a single lifegaining card in the deck. Hence the "he can't afford to cycle Wraiths" comment.And if we are about nitpicking, this isn't combo, it's a (soft) lock deck.Anyway, if Thinker isn't going to use Alchemist, I will.