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im trying to make a great deck is all! so please help me do my darndest :) well i guess this isnt really tournament quality yet, but im hoping it will be soon! so i'll just change it to control for now :p my most liked deck:)
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comments are suggestions are welcome :)
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Silence really does not seem like a card that will help the deck out at all. You need to perfectly time when they're going to actually play stuff. I guess it could kind of preemtively stop counterspells, but that's about it. As it is, I don't see a way for this deck to abuse the Ichor Wellspring, so I would probably cut that. Also, Culling Dais seems pretty weak. I also then, don't think you have enough artifacts to really support Mox Opal. These all should go, IMO. Playing white, you should add the best white control cards you can - Day of Judgement and Gideon Jura. Elspeth Tirel is pretty good as well. Squadron Hawk and Stoneforge Mystic are also seeing a lot of play right now in the UW Caw-Go decks, and they're using them to great effect. You could try that, I suppose. Also, if you add some of those white cards, you will probably have to adjust your land base a bit more to better support those cards. As for black removal, I don't know why you aren't or wouldn't play Black Sun's Zenith, Go for the Throat, or Disfigure. Give them all a try - they're great cards. Good luck with it.
i made a few changes, dropped the cards you suggested, we will see how this works out for me:p
is necropede worth keepiong in this deck? originally is what meant to work with culling dias:p should i add maybe 1 more wurmcoil in its stead and 2 of something else?
so far the changes i've made include -3 mox opal -2 culling dias -2 ichor wellspring -4 silence -1 duress +1 condemn +2 disfigure +2 go for the throat +1 black sun's zenith +2 day of judgement +2 gideon jura changes im thinking about making are -3 necropede +1 mimic vat +1 wurmcoil +1 something else... im still trying to figure that out ideas are wanted and welcome!
i may also drop tectonic edge..
main deck, other than the -1-1, i dont really see a reason for necropede. id drop 3 and put in 2 more skinrenders and another mimic vat. instead of duress, thoughtseize. you should try to fit in at least one more black sun's zenith. sideboard, i dont see the reason to run single copies of cards. take out the ratchet bomb (unless you add more) and magnetic mine for two more doom blades or one doom blade and one celestial purge. thanks for checking out my control, hope this helps. amazing name
i agree that thoughtsieze is an amazing card, however it is no longer standard legal i believe. i may add another skin render its a great stinkin card lol and thanks i like my name as well :)
-3 necropede +1 mimic vat +1 wurmcoil engine +1 skinrender
boom
lol its looking better :) thanks! and you may want to check blackmail as your other discard for your MBC deck
blackmail is ok, but if a guy shows two lands and a one drop, it kinda defeats the value
you're right of course but i can honestly say i have never had a bad experience with blackmail to date:)
-2 tectonic edge +2 verdant catacombs
Personally, I think the Necropedes could have stayed. Sure, you don't have the Culling Dais interaction, but they are still very good at blocking early rushes of creatures. Maybe would be better in the sideboard, though. Or even not at all I suppose would be fine. Bloodghast seems to be the weakest card if your goal is truly control. It is good against control, but because it can't block, it is not much good against the aggro decks. Also, it is a card that is much better for trying to race an opponent and the double black casting cost seems like a pain for this deck. If you remove anything, I think those are the next few cards to come out. Honestly though, I'm not quite sure what to add. I would personally want 24 land, so maybe one more plains and one more swamp. After that, maybe just some more decent control cards. Idk. Looking good so far.:)
yea.... i know bloodghast is the weakest... i just love him so much! lol he is definitely my favorite black card ever! for now he is staying lol and im still considering necropede... he is a beast blocker... maybe i'll add 2 lands and 2 smother? also i dunno if i like 2 DoJ... what do you think?
how do those changes look? -4 bloodghast -2 verdant catacombs +2 smother +2 tectonic edge +1 plains +1 swamp i only put in the 2 extra catacombs to help fuel bloodghast anyway:p
I hope this is the deck you were referring to, lol. well first of all, it's like edna once told me, fume spitters are weak. i'd take out all 4 fume spitters for 4 squad hawks. I used to hate them, but now I love squad hawks. lol. and on that note, if you really want to "control" the field, you could add 2 stoneforge and put in 1 sword of body and mind, and 1 sword of feast and famine. i can see why you'd chose not to, but white is such a great color for get&go. i reallllly dislike smother. it's good up until about turn 4. lol. i'd deff. replace those with doom blades. mimic vats are good, but i find 3 is usually overkill. especially with an essentially low creature count. so i'd drop 1 mimic vat as well. so, should this be my deck, i'd change; -1 mimic vat -4 fume spitter -1 hexmage (just because i'm not a fan of the card, sure, planeswalker kill is good, but you're controlling the board, lol) -2 smother -1 condemn -1 inquisition. why -1 condemn and inquisition? well, condemn is good, but sometimes that life gain can be more a pain than anything. and iquisition is good, but man 2 duress + 2 inquis. is enough. so then i'd add; 4 squad hawk 2 stoneforge 2 doom blade and 1 of each sword. (: just my two cents, but i hope i helped some. also, for the side, deff. find a spot for memoricide.
i'm working on these changes right now thanks so much! i'll see if they work then get back to you:p
anytime man, let me know how they work out for you (:
will do mate will do!
Very Nice deck, but if you wan't my opinion, it probably won't be good because i have never seen black/white control. Well, here it goes. my olny though is what about some spot removal like condemn, swords to plowshares, path to exile, etc. and maybe planar cleansing. idk, these are probably really crappy changes, but at least i tried.
lol they are not crap suggestions:) and your opinion is always valid! lol unfortunately all of your suggestions are not standard:p
fumespitter... weak??? are you kidding? that's a block and -1/-1... I mean... the deck as people have made it out to "good" with suggestions is weak. Honestly. It can't compete b/c it's too slow, the mana is all wrong for early game, and you don't have HALF the mana ramp and/or counters and/or removal to support that kind of mana ramp... As for anyone telling you to take out silence, I say they need to play test a white control. I play 3 white decks, Blue / Black infect, white weenies, and green / white allies... I play silence in all of them... The beginning of their upkeep you silence. It slows them down and ENTIRE turn. Which, if you've played magic, is a very long time... Not to mention if you're playing the tezz deck, you play one mana to push back their slow deck even futher... The card is hugely versatile, and I have never, EVER, been upset to have one in my hand. Playing it t1 isn't a super great idea unless you're playing against goblins, t2 isn't miserable, t3 is probably the peak, t4 is great against certain decks, and if you have in your hand on t5 or later, and haven't used it, you've either top decks it, giving all your spells anti-counters, you waste one of their counters countering it, or you play it on their upkeep and stop their big monsters from coming on the field... It is probably the single best 1 mana white card in standard right now... And with you're mana ramp as it is right now, you're going to need all the stall you can get.
Just one question. What mana ramp are you talking about?!
im confused as to where this mana ramp that your speaking of is as well... but on the subject of silence and fume spitter, i havent ruled them out by any means, i really like the cards.. fume spitter could end up back in the deck for sure, and i may end up taking out the condemns and something for maybe 3 silence... im still working on this though and thank for the suggestions!
Go Sun Titan over Wurmcoil. A lot of things you could bring back in the late game with that.
Sun titan is a great card! i just dont really have a place for him in this deck, i dont have too many things he could actually bring back and i would be happier late game drawing a grave titan or a wurmcoil, which are both better with mimic vat in my opinion. but thanks for the suggestions!
Luminarch Ascension?
its under serious consideration thanks!
how does this look? -2 swords -2 stoneforges -2 condemns +3 luminarch +3 silence
Luminarch is an amazing card, don't get me wrong, but it probably is best left in the sideboard. It wont really help you at all when you're up against goblins or Boros or even Elves.
yea i dropped it from mainboard, but how would you recommend fitting it into the sideboard, also how is the actual deck looking? is it progressing well or just stagnating?
you got rid of stoneforges??? well..anyway. needs more card draw sign in blood is your bread and butter add four of those. also..add two arid mesa and drop two swamps trust me. it will help you with your deck thinning and mana base. silence is bad right now don't use it. you have mass removal no need for the card. also since you realyl don't have a counterspell needs more discard. 4 duress really seems good in the deck,. Lumi is side board only for those control matchups me and ethan just had a huge conversation about that. if you are going against red or aggro its a dead draw. also think about Liliana Vess. she is another +1 or a discard -1. its a good draw in decks like these to play her and get your mass removal spell when needed. here is what i would revise -3 silence +1 black sun +2 duress -3 lumi +2 Vess +3 sign in blood -2 Inquisition of Kozilek
oh k well what would i take out of my sideboard for luminarch? i was thinking the same thing about duress actually.. we'll see how the mana symbol occurrence is before i decide what lands to drop:p
i'll put in 1 liliana vess, i decided to drop 2 plains instead because of how rare its mana symbol occurrence is, this way i have 6 actual plains and 6 ways to fetch one if i need it. so 12 in all and 14 ways for swamp sign in blood is one of my favorite cards thanks for reminding me of it lol:p
Ok, I must say that I think Inquisition of Kozilek is much better in the current metagame right now than Duress as it can grab almost everything that could be important against any deck. The only thing that's usually relevant that it cannot grab is Jace, the Mind Sculptor. But you have ways to deal with him anyways... I'd maybe go with a 3-1 split of 3 Inquisition and 1 Duress. Also, I'm kind of surprised to see no Vampire Nighthawk in the deck. It's a great card for blocking and attacking planeswalkers and everything. Just a wonderful 3-drop. I'm not personally a big fan of Liliana. In my playtesting with her in any deck besides a junky multiplayer combo deck, she's been pretty rough. At best, she's decent - but she's seldom at her best I find. I'd take out Liliana and move the 2 Hexmages to the sideboard and replace them with the Vampire Nighthawks. I do like the Hexmages but they're only really good against Jace decks anyways... Probably would take the Celestial Purge out of the sideboard to make room for them. Celestial Purge doesn't do much for you anymore, now that you have both Doom Blade and Go for the Throat. I can't think of any standard legal cards that one or the other cannot kill that Celestial Purge can (perhaps something with the pro-black sword, I suppose, but that's so situational anyways...).
I honestly dunno which discard is better, but i think you're right about kozilek over duress considering the people i play with dont use planeswalkers often anyway... nighthawk was in the very first build of the deck but that was back when it was more about sacing my creatures lol which is a reason i kept hexmage, so i can understand dropping those:p i have had similar experience with liliana but im going to try her just to see how it goes... well maybe.... nighthawk is one of the best black cards ever in my opinion. celestial purge is as good as out! thanks for all your help!
the thing with duress and inquis is it all depends on the meta your about to play. if it is mostly aggro then inqust is better. if it is mostly control then duress. that is why you have a sideboard lol. if you are going on the pro level then duress for realz. take a look at paris and look at all the control decks taht are played up there. it all depends on where you play. in my area its alot of control and plansewaler aggro and very few aggro but duress still takes out rebirth before they get a chance to play it lol its awesome. i need to make a rebirth deck..think i will i have the cards. anyway...that is how you decide on what to play concerning those two
hey thanks blood! yea im definitely more of a controlly type player but the people i play with are all aggro players:-p so for now i'll stick with inquisition, otherwise how would you say the deck is looking??
just don't forget if you go to a grand prix or a ptq or anything like that... duress is the better card. know the meta you are about to play before going. there are sites that help like here and tcg player. i'll be going to dallas and will be ready to play a bunch of control decks. otherwise..in your meta your deck looks good think about mass wurm from beseiged it can kill alot of aggro real quick on turn 6. might even be a game ender with that lose 2 life when a creature they control goes to the g'yard. think about it. otherwise...really stable i like it. jealous i did not think of it first lol.
good point i'll definitely side board x3 duress in place of the necropedes and 1 luminarch and i'll drop 1 go for the throat from the sideboard for mass wurm thanks! i think it will! thanks for all the suggestions and such! and i'll take that last comment as a HUGE compliment!
you could make this extended real easy with the black white duel shadowmoore lands real easy lol
haha im not looking for an extended deck:p but when zendikar drops from standard i will probably do just that! so do you think this deck has earned "tournament quality yet?"
go to your FNM and try it out. i would say yes but i don't know what your meta is
well we'll pretend it is for the time being :)
seems good from where i'm sitting. i'd like to test against this and try it out.
although i have to say: 4x vampire nighthawk is WAY better than 3. the nighthawk is insane. use it!
lol an additional nighthawk may be mainboarded considering i have 9+ just sitting around:p
Running one and only one Day of Judgment seems low-value; are you at all likely to draw it? You should test ten games and tell us the results. :P
well no im not likely to draw it lol there are a few reasons i run only one, 1. the double WW in the mana cost( i already have enough double cost cards as it is) 2. i have enough creature kill that this should be a last ditch effort anyway 3. the less i have the less likely i am to start off with it in my opening hand
oh k so here is the run down of my first 3 games with this deck against my siege-gang rape deck, so super duper aggro. game 1 adequate control-victory game 2 killed before my 3rd turn game 3 killed before my 5th turn so far overall it has a 1-2 record(without using sideboard) against a completely tricked out goblin deck. tonight im going to test it against my astral slide deck and my stompy deck, and maybe a few of my brothers, we shall see!
This isn't always the worst strategy, but honestly, testing a standard legal deck against one that is only legal in vintage/legacy isn't going to help you much. To figure out the best build for the deck, you need to test it against the decks that are actually played in the current format. Figuring out which cards to put in to stop an Astral Slide deck could/should be completely different from trying to beat a Valakut/UW Caw-Go deck. Those are the things to test against, along with Boros, Kuldotha Red, UB control, and UBx Tezzeret Builds.
well my reasoning is that of testing aggro, control, stompy, and my brother has a mean landfall and my friend has a mean artifact. my goblin deck is the best aggro deck i've seen to date it when 7/10 of its games before the opponents 3rd or 4th turn and 3/10 after the 4th turn, so i decided i would play it instead of my landcry deck. my astral slide deck is sorta an aggresive control deck but the only reason i'm really playing it is because it is one of my favorite deckXD but im not going to change any of this deck based off of how well it does against the slide i wanna see how this deck does against a very good creature based deck such as my stompy so i can fully test this creature control i have. my brother runs a U/B control deck and i just built a U/B/W tezz deck so those should fill the last 2 you mentioned. As far as valakut goes, noone from around here runs one:p and im not sure what Caw-Go means lol But most of all im not going to change this deck up based on how it plays against the vintage decks i have only based on how it plays against the other touney legal ones. on a different note would you mind giving my new U/W/B tezz deck a look?
after looking over this i reckon you'd benefit from either: 3x everflowing chalice or 3x sphere of suns it gives you some early acceleration and smooths out any mana troubles for you. also lets you bust out your big bombs a turn (or two) early which is something worth considering.
im willing to try though suggestions but i need an idea on what i would take out for them?
i think i'm going to go ahead and sideboard the rest of the doomblades considering most of the people i play with use black rather than artifact.
I have to say, I don't really see the point of the little creatures in this deck. If I were you I'd go one of two ways: 1) Keep the hawks, drop the nighthawks/skinrenders and add in 4 stone forge and one of each sword. Or 2) Drop the hawks, nighthawks, skinrenders and add more fatties/control. Doing one or the other will at least add more focus to the deck and stabilize it. Otherwise you're looking to languish in mid game to do what? Cast a hawk? They'll really only be good for stall at best while you wait for your real threats and I'd rather be playing your threats than waiting for them. You might want to consider White Sun Zenith/Massacre Wurm, more wurmcoils more days and more black sun zenith.
im good with that idea, so what fatties would you suggest?
Precurser Golen is a great target for Mimic Vat and a much better threat as people start to value GfT. So I would suggest it. So.. -Squadron Hawks -Nighthawk -Skinrender +3 Precurser Golem +1 Wurmcoil +2 Day of Judgment +1 Mimic Vat +2 Vampire Hexmage +2 Viscera Seer The Hexmage is just a great tool for killing planeswalkers and she can sac herself to get on the Vat and the seer is great for deck control and getting your creatures on the vat. Hope that helps.
i actually like these ideas... i'll give them a try thanks! :D
white doesnt look needed here especially without that exile card in zen. vampires are better than your white. gideon is the only good thing, also skinrender would be better as an angel especially if it's the one that makes bird tokens.
how would emeria angel be good in this deck? so i can kill all my birds with BSZ?
day of judgement x3 need to have a full set since you really havent got any early game
the double mana cost scares me to be honest.. but maybe i'll go mono black with this
Well if i were to make it mono black how would these changes sound? -4 squadron hawk -2 arid mesa -5 plains -2 gideon jura -1 day of judgment (so 14 cards in all) and add +3 swamp +2 tectonic edge +4 bloodghast +1 disfigure +2 abyssal persecutor +1 consuming vapors +1 black sun's zenith that would overall put me at 22 lands:p
Find some room for lightmine field against aggro/ankle biter(for example, kuldotha) decks. Gideon Jura's +2 ability + lightmine field = clearing your opponents board. And it's also kind of funny to watch =P
i'll be sure to look into that right now! thanks for the help mate :)
I'd say take out a sign in blood and a go for the throat and throw in two of the lightmines. That's just my opinion though.
some big changes have been made! how does this look guys? :)
i have a W/B control too
i'll be sure to check it out! any suggestions you can think of for this one?
This deck inspired me to try out a white black deck. it should be up on the vault soon, so stay tuned ; ) great deck, man. not too fond of the golems of the seer, but i can see why you used them. although the seer seems kind of weak to me. sure, you can get a wurmcoil in the vat, animate, swing, sac get 2 tokens. but if you're solely using him for tokens, isn't that kind of a waste? I can also see you about the day of judgement, then sac all your creatures to the seer for card advantage, but still, seems iffy. still though, like the deck
Im really lazy, so I may never actually post the deck. but it will sort of be a caw-go variant, minus the blue.
well im completely open to your suggestions, but honestly out of all the builds this deck has seen, this is the most solid so far. i still dont know what caw-go means lol
caw-go is a very powerful control deck that utilizes stoneforge mystics and squadron hawks, while controlling the board with mass removal spells and counter. Once they get a gideon and a jace on the field, game over, lol.
ahh i see i see, well thanks for your help! i dont really know what kind of deck to build next:p
Haha, anytime. and yeah, me neither xD
i'd throw in some liliana's specters. a lot of decks will end up topdecking against control and if you have a specter on a mimic vat, there's no way out