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This isn't a deck i made this to see who all doesn't like the new rules change and if you don't like em say I and list your username and for those of you who don't know here they are: ur mana pool empties after every phase Combat damage doesn't go on the stack lifelink doesn't stack anymore, mana burn doesn't exist anymore, u can divide the damage with trample, things arn't removed from game anymore they are exiled, u don't play spells you cast them, they reworded deathtouch, you don't put things into play you put them onto the battle field, there is a new thing with creature control and finally i really hate the rules change so yeah don't use this place as a thing to tell people about ur decks ok and thank you and if you like them don't say anything
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dknight27 here, ya fuck that shit, y change a good thing
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You forgot to mention that Combat Damage no longer goes on the stack. This means you can't sac things once damage goes on the stack to get the effect as well as the damage. Also you can't do things in response to combat damage. IT SUCKS!!!!!! This ruins EVERYTHING!!!! AHH!!!
Oops, it's the first thing on the list. RIGHTFULLY SO, WORST THING EVER.
THE RULE CHANGES SUCK HARD ASS
i don't like rules
The rules really... Really suck now. You can't do all them nifty little control tricks that artifact players love so much. I guess it helps weaker players like me, once I completely RELEARN the game they call MTG.
I like new things so i like the new rules too ;)
I think I may have to play with the new rules a bit to see if they're as bad as I think they are, but I really dislike that I have to re-learn all these rules that I finally understand! Lack of mana burn completely nullifies half the threat of a good Mana Flare deck a friend of mine has...kind of a pity, actually.
actually they are bad the new rules i played with them alot of combos don't work anymor and th most shitty thing of all! F YOU ARE BLOCKED BY 2 OR MORE CREATURES YOU MUST CHOOSE AN ORDER IN WHICH YOU DEAL DAMMAGE TO THEM YOU CANT DEVIDE THE DAMMAGE AS YOU WANT ANYMORE which sucks
I'm just not gonna play with the new rules.
ericdevey has deleted this comment.
Ummm, why does it matter if it "enters play" or "enters the battlefield"? It's just a re-wording. Same with "exile." Look at som of the old cards as well. Some say "when you cast a spell." Again, it's a re-wording. Who cares? PS - Mana pools always emptied at the end of phases. PPS - Learn proper punctuation, please. It's MUCH easier to communicate your opinions to the rest of the world if what you write is legible.
It matters because if you cast the spell, it doesn't necassarily mean it hits the battlefield (i.e. countered), but it is still played so it activates cards effects (such as wurm's tooth). Also, mana pools now empty at both steps AND phases (yes, they are not the same). Next, it really doesn't matter if the combat damage doesn't use the stack unless you try to take advantage of loopholes in the rules and new players. Next, you forgot to mention deathtouch not stacking (you don't need to prevent damage more than once for multiple deathtouchs) and also the end of turn step loophole is now fixed by changing it to the end step and rewording effects. Lastly, thank you for the punctuation comment. people on this site love to rape the english language. sorry for the long comment!
no it doesnt if countered it never happened
Yeah pyrowolf's right on this one. Countering nullifies all triggered effects of "casting/playing"
I hate that I have to bring this up, because Priority issues suck. But If you cast a green spell that activates wurm's tooth, even if it's countered, you still get the effect. here's why. you cast the spell, priorty states that you, as the active player, have a chance to respond to it first. So you can respond to your spell by choosing to activate wurm's tooth ability. this would then also go on the stack. If you have nothing else to play in response, you pass priority, which means your opponent can now counter your spell, and this would also go onto the stack. So, our stack looks like this, starting with the first spell played. Green spell --> Wurm's Tooth --> Counter green spell. Now, the stack reads backwards. the counter goes off, meaning the green spell doesn't "RESOLVE" and is removed from the stack. Next Wurm's Tooth effect goes off, and you gain your 1 measly life because it's ability wasn't countered, even though the green spell didn't resolve. Welcome to magic people, learn to play the game.
I like this guy. =]
That works unless you counter target ability
Like Trickbind... Which was used on me the other night by a friend who decided to counter my ability on Terramorphic expanse... made me Lol Rage so hard. It was funny in general... the fact that I was the target... grr....
the lifelink not stacking is a blessing but no mana burn and removing damage from the stack was stupid.
if you don't like the change then quit the game. get over it.
Oh how I love it when "that guy" enters the conversation with the age old tag line, "If you don't like it just quit!"
Haha add me in dude. My playgroup still plays with the old rules. There was nothing wrong with any of them...at all. The new trample + deathtouch is just asinine, and no mana burn?! ARE YOU JOKING?! I've seen countless new players tap all their lands to play a spell because they don't worry about mana burn, yet they could have used the leftover mana for more spells! These new rules are not only pointless and counter-intuitive, they make bad players!
Mini Garruck has deleted this comment.
Damage, why did you leave my wonderous stack? Sacrifice decks had been the ultimate form of battlefield command! I've been trying to make my group return to mana burn, and this new confangled Flesh Allergy seems to make them consider it, but the most damage I would ever take from mana burn would be about three.
Just show them the card Braid of Fire as one of MANY examples of how freakin' stupid removing mana burn is. If that doesn't work, slap them and tell them surewhynot says you're playing with mana burn damn it!
That(alongside the lost skeleton of cadavera) made my day a bit better.
Hah! I was just talking about that card today! (Mana burn was a hot topic during todays matches) I was trying to remember what it was called.. thanks for reminding me :) I had a pair of Braid of Fire a while back, that I ended up trading. When I got back into magic a little while ago that was one of the first things that hit me.. DOH! I wish I didn't trade those! They'd now make my upkeep build viable, whereas back in the day they were too ephemeral to rely upon. But now.. who cares if I don't have an upkeep cost to pay? I can still keep the Braids active and idle.. Oh. And then they released Comet Storm >.> *kicks himself in the ass* Oh well :)
Your tears are delicious.
i don't like that the damage isn't on th stack, i hadn't played for two years and when i got back the rules had changed and i hate "NO SACRIFICING IN RESPONSE TO DAMAGE"
dagbaker: i never really liked mana burn i mostly just avoided it anyway but yeah ^^^^
You bet your ass. Playing with old-school rules makes my Black Sacrifice deck 3000% more fun =P Me: "I'll swing with all these guys. OH! and also my Bloodthrone" Opponent: "Ok...The Bloodthrone's a 1/1?" Me: **>_>** Me: "...Sure" Opponent: "Alright I'll block those guys and take 1" Me: "Actually, I'll sac everything else to pump Bloodthrone...so you're instead taking...17 damage." Opponent: "I lost..." Me: "Damn right."
Combine with Royal Assassin so you always win against bant :D
Yeah tell me about it. My buddy uses an Assassin deck (pretty awesome actually) and it is VERY hard to play against when I play my Bant deck. BUT THAT'S STRATEGY! And it was FUN! -_- ....Bastards.
I LAUGHED AT "I lost..." LOL
You can actually still do this. There is nothing in the new rules stopping it. The only difference is that the cratures that were blocked will not deal thier damage to the defending creatures before they are sacrificed.
dumbass. pureincognito1 is totally right. and to allow of u haters, the new rules are better. you can still divide damage as u choose, and deathtouch got way better. ps this is retarded. those changes were made for the benefit of the game. they were also ways to manipulate new players. except exile. i really don't get that. the term 'exile' is usually in reference to a possession of one's own. to 'exile' someone's stuff is to assert your own will upon someone else's stuff.
*all of
your a total dumb ass yeah its totally horrible that they made the game less confusing for new players you have to think wizards is a business there not gonna shun new money to suck your dick because your a whining little bitch oh and mana burn made cards like seething song and harabaz druid seem to suck balls but now without that pointless rule there great cards and the removed from the game saying was confusing because cards aren't technically removed because they can still be brought back and the coming into play makes more sense and they change the rules every 10 years so in 10 more years people will still bitch but continue to play and since the rule change there sales have went up and fnm has been seeing more new players
Commas and periods (and spellcheck) are your friends. =]
Come one, the OP's grammar was a million times worse. And how do I report the deck? It's not a deck, it's some four-year-old whining.
That isn't the point nor the issue. I'm merely saying that if he, or anyone in fact, wants to make an adequate and intelligent argument, cussing and ranting in blatant illiteracy does not help his (or their) cause.
Knock, knock. -Whos there Punctuation. I hear you've got a beef with me. -Oh fuck leave me along man i dont want any trouble Protip: if you're going to troll someone for bing a whiny little bitch, don't be a whiny little bitch yourself. Good day, fail less in your future endeavors.
The irony here is remarkable. =]
I returned to the game after almost 4 years of beign in the "exile"... and the first thing they say to my game-friend says to me is "mana doesn't burn anymore" And i was outrage... I miss the mana burn, and the mana pool being empied after each phase, makes my Eldrazi spawns useless against a hideous laughter that has being played in COMBAT phase, since I can't play a creature during that phase to safe my 15 mana sacrificed.... over all, yeah it does suck... but we will get use to it and rock it... that's how evolution works isn't it?
Ok no offence you guys but if your so butt hurt about the rules why even play anymore? i mean your just causing drama. after all they made the game to have fun and they changed the rules so its easier for new players yes it suck that the old rules are gone and some combos dont work but still their not going to change right a way so you should just stop complaining and just play.
Didn't the rules change a year ago? What do you mean by "they're not going to change right away?"
i mean there not going to change back anytime soon
Please explain to me, and the others, what is so complicated about "Hey kid, whatever mana you don't use, is gonna damage you." Yes, the stack and shenanigans related to it, specifically sacrificing during combat damage being put onto the stack, is more complicated. However, being a more complicated trick, an older player would just be a jerk if he did that, or similar tricks, to a new player. So, overall, those arguments about the stack are moot. Additionally, I'd argue that, and I have dealt with this a few times before, explaining the new rules regarding trample and deathtouch is FAR more complicated than any of the complications that wizards tried to fix with the new rules. I play with friends, and casually overall, so my friends and I simply ignore these rules...but we aren't really the one's screwed over here. New players, I'd argue, are not going to be good at this game due to the ease of the new rules. Additionally, their frustrations from not being as skilled as they could be will be compounded when they try to understand the complexities of the new rules' changes. So sure, there's a jump in new players trying out Magic, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's an additionally large drop-off. So that's my major frustration with the new rules. Not what it'll do to how I play, because it doesn't, but what it IS doing to how new players play the game.
when i started playing (at 8 years old ;) ) i completely understood sacrificing on the stack and did it all the time. but after my 2 year break from magic i made a type 2 deck, went to play fnm, and found out the rules changed!! :( it made me feel like an idiot because i tried to sac during the combat damage. i really liked doing that :[
Mana burn wasn't really complicated, it was just stupid.
you can now divid alot of damage just like trample like deathouch, fuck dude
Especially the fact that combat damage no more goes onto the stack is a pain in the ass. The concept of a stack is so simple and beautiful, but now Magic destroyed the consistency in the game. Now it is not enough to understand the stack, no, you also have to gather knowledge about all these special extra combat rules! In Germany you would say "Why make it simple when you can also make it complicated" (sarcasm).
Aaboy66 has deleted this comment.
Wow, way to resurrect a thread from 2009 you scrubs.
ok i dont neccisarily like the new rules and mana burn never effected me but it made it more interesting by adding that extra element of "how do i best use my mana so that it does not hurt me so badly" and damage on the stack dissappearing is dumb but like some of you have said just play casually with friends and use which rules u wanna follow. and not to be mean but all this people complaining about others grammer...seriously? this is mtgvault.com not imawannabegrammerteacher.com yes im aware ur not supposed to start a sentence with and but i did and theres not alot u can do about it. all in all if u dont like the rules dont play in tournaments or fnm i never do just with friends of like minds who agree on how things should be done
Dude, why is your grammar SO bad? ..jokes..
lol my grammer is quite atroscious
I quite honestly couldn't care less about the illiteracy of other posters. I'm just letting them know that when making an argument, it's rather difficult for people to believe they know what they're actually talking about. And if you're aware of something of that sort, why wouldn't you try to NOT do it? By that same logic, if you had a giant cut in your hand, you'd refuse to wrap it in bandages because "I'm in my room, not a hospital".
im not saying that people should intentionally make grammatical errors but why point out others mistakes and sorry but physical harm and grammer are no where near the same thing
Obviously the two are not the same thing. I was merely making a humorous comparison. Are people honestly getting upset by my posts? That's just plain goofy. =]
I'm a new player and personally, having learned the old rules after seeing this, I don't think it makes a difference in enjoyability for newcomers. Sacrificing in the middle of the stack may be a nice trick, but so are the new things you can do with Trample and Deathtouch, and in the end, the lack of Mana Burn is just a difference - neither good nor bad. I think people are probably just annoyed by things changing more than the actual changes themselves. Also, on the grammar front, I agree that grammatical "mistakes" are acceptable where the meaning is still clear, but those awful walls of text with little to no punctuation are just about unreadable.
sure for new comers you never really got a chance to enjoy the full extent of the old rules. example people who had mana barb land burn decks that they worked hard on to create well i guess that deck is gone. people who loved their decks based on using really cool things like putting a loxodon warhammer on another creature with loxodon warhammer hey my creature gains me double the life wow these rule changes essencially changed the game we loved entirly
I think I was playing some things wrong...this is pretty much how i used to play...
Oh wait, this is from 2009. I guess I was playing how I was supposed to...
yeah the rules changes sucked but honestly not as bad as i thought they would plus they opened up new doors for magic to roam in made some cards possible for them to make. but o well. honestly i kinda find it funny this forum so to speak is on the most popular decks list considering the changes are kinda old now haha well done sir
I entered the game with a sense of fascination, now I just feel scared, might read some more. Do the rules make for a good read? , maybe. (LOVE) and much lameness. I like.
see, this is what ranting does to the new guys. now he actually WANTS to read the rules!
I'm in favor of most of the new rules changes. Most of them are just rewordings, though some do bare significant impact on the game. At first I was opposed to the changes to combat damage (and combat in general) however having played several hundred games (God, I need a life. At least there's women in our group on campus now ^-^) I've decided I like it. It's not a bad change, and simplifies matters greatly.. especially in multi-player games, where a huge combat stack could be overwhelming at times. What I /do not/ like is the summary execution (and anonymous burial) of Mana Burn. Just tonight I was talking about this.. how I proliferated my Everflowing Chalice up to something like 15 counters. When asked why I kept adding counters, I simply replied "Why not?" (doesn't hurt that I felt like a banking mogul, with my mountains of pennies falling off the card every time I tapped it :P) I remember playing my Saporoling deck a while back, which ran multiple Mirari's Wake. Back in the day, I had to plan carefully how I would accelerate my mana, and sometimes had to bite the bullet to gain the card advantage necessary to take over the board. Now, mana acceleration is almost an after thought, not like the days past when it was a masterfully executed plan. There's NO WAY I would have tapped an Everflowing Chalice with 15 counters on it two years ago! It'd just be absurd! The game has become entirely too much about speed, and I do not like that. Does anybody remember a time when you'd win the pre-game roll-off, and /actually choose/ to go second to draw a card, rather than play first? A thing of the past, that.
Meh, who cares, I've been playing since 94, I'm sure as hell not gonna bother to stop now. Yeah, no mana burn seems odd and the combat damage not going onto the stack can suck, but I'm sure someone out there will figure out more and more ways to abuse what rules aren't there. So whatev, it sucks, but I'm gonna keep on playin!
dont mind lifelink or deathtouch changes kinda dislike trample change and i always thought the "remove from game" shit was stupid. especially with pull from eternity, and cards like that if there are any. i mean, if it's out of the game, how the hell can u bring it into the game? that defeats the whole purpose. i think both "exile" and "cast" are more appropriate, and it kind of draws you away from the "its just a game" aspect. both "remove from game" and "play a spell" implies it is a game, and the other words bring u more into the magic world than just a game. whether that is a good thing or not, no idea. but i like it. as for the attack damage stacking, i hate that rule change more than anything. this is what i have strongest feelings about, so u can count me in on this little survey/petition/thing.
oh and the "enter the battlefield" applies to the third paragraph.
u would lose first round u retard
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=definition+of+irony
Why does this matter?
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/42a All the rule changes and explanations of why how they are changed. With charts :). I'm a relatively new player, and I actually play with a combination of the new and old rules. Really if you don't like the new rules don't play with them, and if you do then go ahead and use the changes. Casual magic is made to be whatever the player wants; make up your own rules for all I care, but don't complain because in all reality it's not going to do anything. Thank you
the no mana burn thing pretty much ruined a few cards and made a few others better/broken, other than that no mana burn is fine with me. Damage on the stack was always stupid though. If a creature hits, it hits. Combat damage is much better as it is now.
Alright, one thing I want to mention sort of in the argument of "damage on the stack doesn't make sense!" I have always thought it makes great sense! For example: a creature can sac himself to deal enough damage to a creature to kill it. He's blocked by a separate creature, dealt lethal damage, and then sacs to kill the other one. Some argue this makes no sense in the metaphoric or "phantasy/flavor" sense. It does. That little bastard's ability to sac himself means he's a bit crazy...don't care if he dies, so long as stuff breaks or whatever. (most sac cards are R and/or B...see the connection?) So, this crazy suicidal dude gets whomped by the dude blocking him, but manages to kill him too. Let's say they stabbed each-other at the same time. With his last totally crazy breath, before he dies, that dude blows himself up and the shrapnel hits and kills another guy adjacent to him! See?! It makes sense!
the fact that you thought of that, worries and inspires me at the same time. Mostly because I thought of it in the exact same way. Can you tell we're both R/B players?
The problem with that logic is that he doesn't take damage then dies, he sacs himself then deals damage from beyond the grave killing the second guy: -damage is placed on the stack -in response I sac my creature to deal 2 damage. My guy dies and his ability is placed on the stack. the stack resolves starting with the most recently activated ability: -My creature deals 2 direct damage to you in a fiery explosion, killing the adjacent guy -My creature's dead arm hits your creature for 2 damage, killing him from beyond the grave also, in the above scenario, your guy dies, and then the time bomb strapped to his already dead chest explodes: a on enters the graveyard trigger, not a sac trigger Damage + the stack = random bull s--- from beyond the grave DOES NOT MAKE SENSE I am a U/R player and I believe most/all of these changes are for the better.
there are rules? I usually play red so this is all new to me...
This made my day XD Spoken like a true Red player. "There's rules?! Hell, I just blow shit up and it all ends up dead."
^ this.
Can someone explain the new deathtouch rule to me? Not sure I follow it all that well lol. Wanna make sure my Tidehollow Strix's and Vampire Nighthawks are still my lil' babies :)
Last I checked, the most recent ruling is that for all sources with deathtouch, 1 is considered lethal damage to a creature. It effectively sets the toughness of all creatures facing a source with deathtouch to 1. example: a 4/4 trample with deathtouch blocked by 3 8/8 creatures will deal 1 to each and 1 to the player, destroying all of the creatures.
to my understanding, wont the 4/4 just be killed by the first 8/8? even though he only needs to deal 1 damage to kill the 8/8, they're both dealing damage at the same time. trample or not, if he's dead before he can move on to the second, doesn't matter what effect he has. now if he had first strike and trample, he'd hit the 8/8 first, deal one damage before getting hit, then go on to deliver the rest of what he's got left. ive used that strategy with basilisk collar and sword of vengeance manyyy times.
No, see that would make sense. We wouldn't want that. No, with the new rules, now a 4/1 with deathtouch and trample can deal 1 damage to the opponent after magically taking down 3 infinite/infinite creatures. At this rate Phage the Untouchable will be given errata to say "Phage has Deathtouch". -_-
..thats just not cool
I hate that combat damage no longer goes on the stack - what happened to blocking then sacking mogg fanatic?!?!!?!?!
The onley thing that sucks realley hard is mana burn. Just ciz some fuken noobes get confused when they findout about it
I think they are like this because, people bitch and cry about some card being Godly. you I learn the old way and new I can win by turn 2 or 3 old. 3 or 5 new. but don't change the god damn names to many cards to learn new names god damn it pick one or do both. Both In my eyes old and new. and stand..... is to big to everone. they is other ones.
I could not understand a single word of that,
man that is a hell of a run-on sentence it's like you don't understand how periods work or commas too or any other punctuation at all and just stringed together a garbled mess of stuff about lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit Duis interdum augue sed dui viverra fermentum Ut elementum suscipit leo, a porta dui posuere in Duis nunc ante, facilisis a auctor at, condimentum sit amet ligula Mauris convallis, diam at pharetra scelerisque, ipsum velit eleifend felis, non volutpat mi nisi eu eros In imperdiet mauris tincidunt risus tincidunt et tempus sem varius Suspendisse ultrices tristique felis, ut congue lectus vestibulum in.Maecenas mauris metus, ullamcorper ut vehicula nec, aliquam at magna Suspendisse cursus interdum sagittis Aliquam vel sagittis elit Nunc ultrices, felis eget tempus pellentesque, urna nulla iaculis purus, eu convallis est est a lacus Suspendisse eleifend augue in urna varius vitae ornare erat euismod.besides I don't think we've had mana burn since Clinton was in office. That's hardly 'new'.
OP is fgt. This post is pointless. Whining about rules on here does nothing. Go whine on mtgsalvation.