dknight27

They are cheaper fetch lands that pull unwanted lands from the deck so that 1- you won't draw them mid-late game when you don't need them, and 2- you get a godless or equivalent when you need it early. In general, this mechanic is one of the biggest revolutions in MTG theory, as EVERYONE knows the dread of topdecking a land and thinking, how many more of these bastards are there?!?!?! This helps solve that problem.

Not trying to offend, just wondering if i missed a combo

I see a few potential problems in this deck. You have 7 blink cards and only 4 snaps that you actually want to blink, and only 10 other cards besides blink instants that you can actually snap back, meaning that the chances of having 2 targets for snap (the original and then the first blink) are very low. I would think this would cut down on the consistency quite a bit, especially since you can get similar functions from other cards such as restoration angel, that actually give you other functionality.
I also don't see the need to run 24 lands when this deck's curve is decently low already and you aren't running man lands. You could save a little synergy by running some 1 drop top effects like sleight of hand, serum visions, opt etc. This cuts down on your topdecked lands and still keeps you lethal and dropping lands in the first few turns. They also give you turn 1 plays, and right now you only have 8 active 1 drops to use turn 1 and 4 reactive 1 drops to use in response turn 1.
I can't see mainboarding 3 ghostly prisons working well in a deck like this unless you're in a format that runs heavy fast creatures and basically nothing else. With only 3 you aren't that likely to consistently get it when you need it early-middle game, and topdecking one is a waste once you're out of the early middle game. It also cuts down on potential snap targets, as creature control can be achieved with sorceries/instants that can then be snapped back and don't have to be locked down in an enchantment.
I'm a HUGE fan of running ojutai's command in a snap mechanic (and in general) because it generates positively crazy advantage if you return a snap. Basically you either draw 1 card or counter a creature spell, return a snap, and snap back something fun, giving you +2 and possibly a tempo for the turn, all from 1 card and a snap in the grave. And its a good card without a snap target anyway. Ludicrous.
I also have problems running 2 cryptic commands in modern, but I'll save the words because no one else seems to agree with me.

Just my thoughts

I'm seeing some conflicting things here, and the 29 land producers means that you have very little actual material, pretty much all of which is vulnerable to normal removal and control.

Aether vial makes no sense in here to me, especially with so many mana producers. I also see problems with eternity vessel.

Am I missing something here?

Thanks for the interest, I'm pretty happy with it so far.
The best part is that besides fixing the lands and a few tweaks here and there I think this decktype has the potential to be competitively in the same manner as dredge mechanics

The mana curve in this deck is delicious, you have nearly full functionality with just 1 land, so bravo! I also think there are some good themes in here as well, but that being said, I see a few possible problems I'd like to discuss.

stubborn denial doesn't seem like that good of an option to me honestly. It's super conditional and only has 4 cards in the deck that make it a hard counter, making it unreliable, and if you don't have the beast to keep it a hard counter it loses all significance once you get out of the early middle game. Plus you already run 6 discard options and Liliana for a total of 8 ways to stop spells before they connect, so I don't even think its that necessary.

Thought scour might not pack enough punch for the theme here. Gitaxian probe would be perfect but for the ban, so I would think sleight of hand would operate better as it gives you tactical sorting rather than the simple draw and mill and you have the possibility of being stuck at 1 land early on.

How is street wraith working for you? drops the life, grave fodder for delve and tasigur, deck thinning, but borderline useless as a beater (5 mana in a 19 land deck). I have mixed feelings about it. I would almost advise dropping it out and adding more consistent beat options like gurmag (I still wouldn't run 4 garages (clogs early hand))

I'm not sure why lightning bolt isn't sporting 4 copies as it is basically the best removal option for the price you're going to see in this deck, can be snapped back for damage for game, and in general dominates the early game like nobody's business.

Now to the thought that always gives me trouble, the balance of the snap. I know the mtg community is in love with the card, as they should be, but it's my experience that 4 copies is actually detrimental to a deck as it ups the chance of drawing him opening hand which is basically a dead draw until the middlegame. This idea is basically tripled in a deck with 19 lands, as the math is against you having 3 lands available until like turn 6, making it a late middlegame threat and denying you the crucial control elements you need in the opening hand that will lose you the game if you don't have them. That being said, I think 3 copies is the correct balance, as it drops the opening hand odds just enough to let you draw it when you want it rather than having it be a brick.

Just my thoughts, again, I know my snap-theory isn't that popular in a community which preaches "run 4 copies" whenever possible.

Other than that, I love this type of build. Let me know what you think and I would be happy to discuss.

Unfortunately, from my perspective, this deck just doesn't hold up. The combo has a very low chance of going off turn 1, and since you don't have any mana acceleration the evolution won't go off till turn 3 best case, which gives your opponent ample time to have an answer ready to some part of your combo. On top of that, if your combo doesn't go off turn 3, which it almost certainly won't (you need 3 cards, 2 of which have only 4 copies in the deck with no search or acceleration), the deck is incredibly slow and has little to no interaction that can buy you time until your titans hit the field.

If you want to try and make this type of deck go off, you positively have to use tactical acceleration to search out what you need and interaction to stall until it can realistically go off. Cards like abrupt decay, serum visions, sleight of hand, inquisition of kozilek etc. Also, you don't need to run 9 titans when you are pulling them from the deck. 5 should be fine, which gives you more spots for useful cards. Same with the lands. You don't want to hard cast them, so you don't need 23 lands. 21 should be fine.


Just my honest opinion. Not trying to put you down or anything like that. I used to make decks like this. Took me a while to figure out what makes them work.

This is an excellent question and the answer is a big step in a player's journey from novice to intermediate or expert play. The short version of the answer is magic is actually a game of development and sacrifice, and fetch lands are one of the best sets of cards ever made, even taking away their ability to fix mana problems.

You started to answer your own question actually. The main point is that you pull lands out in the early and middle game so that by the endgame you won't be topdecking lands, which loses you the game. Pulling 2 fetch lands in the opening reduces the deck's lands by 4, dropping the stats on drawing lands by a significant amount. If you go first with a deck with 21 lands (pretty standard) and have 5 non-lands and 2 fetch lands, and draw a non-land on your second turn, the math on you drawing a land turn 3 is 17/52 or around 33%. If you draw a non-fetch land on turn 2, the math is 16/52 or 31%. If you draw a fetch land turn 2, the math is 15/52 or 29%.

This reduction in odds is drastically more important than the 2-3 life early and the total 5ish life you will lose by running the fetch lands. If running them gives you 1 non-land card on a draw in the whole game, which statistically it will consistently, then the trade in life is more than worth it. Think of it this way, you are paying <6 life to have the ability to not lose the game by running out of cards.

It's also important to understand that your life total isn't an extremely important factor in the game, which is counterintuitive to most non-competitive players. Firstly, not all decks win by reducing life to 0. Secondly, the concept of reducing life to zero is only achieved through one of 3 ways, all of which can be more easily countered by you having higher card advantage than higher life total.

The first way is the agro way, or attacking with creatures. This requires that the attacking player have control of the board state, meaning he has a way to attack every turn, deal damage, and prevent you from attacking in the same turn cycle. Again, the easiest way to gain control of the board state is with card advantage. If you have more cards than opponent, the math is on your side to have a bigger creature or have a kill card or what have you to gain the board state.

The second way is through a combo or control mechanic that deals damage more slowly than an OTK. The only way to beat this type is to either make your win condition work more quickly than your opponent's win condition or dismantle the opponent's mechanic. Both of which are achieved through card advantage.

The third way is through burn, which requires card advantage to win. Burn mechanics achieve this through fewer lands/search lands, and cards like grim lavamancer that utilize resources for greater card advantage. Again, you beat this mechanic by having more material to throw at the opponent.


Another important concept to understand here is the mana curve and how it shapes the land content of your deck. There are 2 measures you need to take into account when planning a mana curve, the operational curve and the complete curve.

The operational curve is the lowest land value at which your deck can operate, the complete curve is the max amount of lands you want after which any other land drawn is a waste. The lower both curves are, the better your deck is. This centers around the concept that magic is a race for development and completion of a win condition, whatever that condition may be (combo, creatures etc).

Normally, a good deck will have an operational curve of 2 and a complete curve of 4 or 5. Anything higher and you are wasting time and will statistically lose to someone that is running that sort of curve.

For these reasons, cards like terramorphic expanse and evolving wilds aren't worth the paper on which they are printed because they deny you the use of the turn on which you play them. If you actually need the mana they would produce for the turn you would be better off with any land that can tap for mana than the search mechanic. And if you don't need the mana, its a dead draw anyway.

I know this will seem counterintuitive and possibly condescending, but I assure you I'm just trying to explain some of the highest level of play of this game. If you can assimilate this type of strategy into your play you will most definitely level up.

On a side note, this particular deck isn't very good and I wouldn't try and make it work.

I have very mixed feelings about colonnade, which I realize aren't really shared by the rest of the magic community. Here are my thoughts, let me know what you think.

Pros:
1- its a good win condition long term
2- produces mana so fixes mana problems as well
3- is basically immune to sorceries (wrath effects)
4- hard to burn off
5- hard to kill with irregular snipe effects (stuff that kills/exiles non-lands permanents)



Cons:
1- slow, as it comes in tapped and takes 5 other lands to activate
2- draining, the 5 other land requirement means you can't safely start using the manland until you are at 5 lands + whatever your operational curve is (mine is 2, so I would need 7 total lands to be marginally safe in letting it start attacking)
3- loss of tempo/mulligan problem- I hate dropping it turn 1 as it doesn't let me bolt/spell snare/path/sleight of hand which is basically how this deck functions, and it presents the same problem turn 2 (no remand/helix), so I never want to have it in the opening hand, so I never really want to run more than 1 copy. For the same reasons, I don't want to actually give it a land spot as I can't rely on it the turn I draw it and it severely hinders the deck's workings in the first 2 turns. Basically I don't want to draw it at all until I have the operational curve handled and have enough control going that I can afford a dead draw (what it is the turn you draw it (tapped)).



My conclusions: This deck's operational curve is 2, meaning it can do almost everything it needs to with only 2 mana. It also relies on having turn 1 and 2 plays/responses, then holding down the field until a win condition surfaces (which isn't that hard).

So, I don't want to run anything that I rely on for mana that upsets the turn 1/2 balance. I would be ok running 1 copy of colonnade, but in my opinion its very overpriced for the reason's I've stated above. It has caused me to mulligan many times where a regular land would have kept me the hand, and I personally prefer a spell over a land in the 22nd spot (I run 21 lands for decks like this).


All of this being said, I'm not denying its a good card. I just don't personally like how it plays with the type of decks I tend to build.

Thanks for the feedback!

This decktype is one of my favorite, and, in my opinion really gets at what magic should be. No boring combos or silly creatures, just agro that provides control and vice versa, all with a nice helping of speed.

I really like 1 thalia, heretic cathar in here as it will further shut things down and is a remarkable cheap beater on its own that can combo well with the jitte (get counters first, pull them off before damage is dealt to thalia to buff him or -1/-1 the creature).

I'm not that big a fan of flickerwisp in here as I only see stoneforge and revoker as targets.

I try and not run 3 serra avengers even with the vial as they can choke your hand early and only running 2 cuts down on the chances of it being in the opening hand.

I'm also surprised there aren't a few fetch lands to thin out the plains, and that there are 22 lands total. I would personally feel more comfortable with 21 lands and at least 6 fetches, but that's me.

I would also think about running blessed alliance in the side to combat protection stuff and stop combos that summon big creatures fast.

Other than that she looks beautiful. Nice job.

Thanks for the feedback friend. For some reason people don't seem to want to give much of it these days.

Here is my thought process of why I built it the way it is.

1- no blue because I'm on a semi-budget and can't drop another 500 bucks to get blue lands, force of wills etc.

2- splash red so that I will have the turn 1 answers to fast creatures, especially against blitz agro decks and mana producers. It also lets me run bloodbraid, which is, in my opinion, one of the best cards in the game to topdeck. It also broadens the sideboard options and lets me run some of the sideboard cards I love like pyroclasm and slaughter games.

I like the Chandra idea, I'll give that one some thought.

3- pack rat is in here as a token producer for batterskull and the jitte, as well as an outlet to deal with excess lands once I have the field covered. It's also a win condition on its own so If I top deck one when we are both out of material it can reinforce my field no matter what I draw every turn. It also helps deal with the discard options if I draw too many or draw one late game and know that it won't connect. My logic for tasigur was similar, that he is a good top deck that can beat on his own and generates card advantage. As I've been playing the deck I've run into a lot of topdecking situations as they blast away my confidants and I end up spending the control elements quickly.

4- Lingering souls is always nice, especially as a token generator for the equipments. I was trying to stay away from net decking, but you're right its a wonderful option that bears consideration.

5- I chose vindicate over pulse so I can deal with manlands as this deck is slightly vulnerable to them (abrupt decay cant get em and lightning bolt might be too small).

6- so far I've had luck with the finks to keep me afloat in life-taking races and as persistent bodies for the equipments. I considered reliquary and will keep thinking about him, especially as this deck has enough fetch lands to make him bad ass even without using his own fetch ability.


As some general notes, the 4 color thing seems risky, but with so much fetch I've basically not been in trouble with lands yet. I need to pick up a bayou, but other than that it hasn't been as issue.

I'm still working on the sideboard, but as it runs 4 colors and can put in mindbreak trap to deal with some pesky combos the deck wouldn't otherwise be able to handle, I feel pretty confident about how it's playing so far.

Again, thanks for the feedback. I'll check some of your stuff.

I completely agree. Cheaper and can be used as a blocker

This looks pretty solid to me. I'm a little hesitant to run 4 green sun's as they wont fetch your stoneforges or thalia's, but its nice to drop one turn 1 and be up in development with another aid to the clock. I would personally consider running an extra noble hierarch over 1 green sun because it fixes land problems and will almost never be a dead draw because of its wonderful exalted. I would also consider trimming the lands down to 21 as your curve is super small and you have plenty of mana accel already.

Just some thoughts. Love the build.

dark confidant is ludicrously good, especially in fast formats as it can be dropped turn 2 and you can always suicide it off to blocking if the life gets too low. I would personally run 3 and trim out a snapcaster and 2 jace's for it. ill check the other deck as well

Not sure why this deck isn't coming up modern legal.

I would hesitate to run cryptic command at all in this deck as you are only running 20 lands. A 4 drop counterspell with such difficult casting conditions will positively leave you vulnerable in the opening and middle game and realistically won't come available until its too late. The 3 blue casting cost just makes it a pain, and the 4 cost overall hurts the opening which is critical for a deck like this that will fold if it lets opponent get a fast creature or two swinging for damage very turn. You would be much better off running something like remand or mana leak (remand is basically never a dead draw as it replaces itself and at least slows opponent down even if they have the ability to recast the countered spell in the same turn), both of which are easy to cast, grant control of the opening, and remain decent in the middle game.

I have a similar problem running 4 snapcasters in that they don't help you in the opening at all and are conditioned on having something applicable in the grave to be worth the cast, so I never run more than 3 to up the chances of not getting it in the opening hand.

Mindstab seems too conditional and slow for me here. If you don't cast it turn 1 it won't hit the field in time to do real damage, and the big problem is that opponent has time to prepare for it. They can either dump their hand or just keep excess lands or unnecessary cards to basically counter or, or even worse just hold onto a counterspell and not bother with it at all. I personally prefer more tangible control effects like spell snare and terminate as they aren't really conditional or slow and can be snapped back without having to pay 6 for the snap.

I would also consider running 21 lands in here because of the need to have 1 land open on turn 1 and you have 3 lands that wont allow that with 20 being a decently low level in the first place, so kicking it up to 21 will help the consistency. Plus, with 9 search lands the dead draws in the middle and late game shouldn't really be a problem.

Just some thoughts.

Believe it or not thermo-alchemist devastates in a deck like this. If they don't remove it he is good for at least 5-8 damage on his own. So far I havn't had a problem finishing out games even without major agro sources or other damage options.

I'm not running the 2 mana burn spells for direct damage only, or I would switch it over to the direct burn for 1. This is almost exclusively a control deck that burns to negate creature presence and deals damage with direct spells as a backup. Most of the time I get a few damage off with the delver, some consistent and basically free damage from electrolyze, most of the damage from alchemist, and the finishing blow with a direct burn spell. The rest of the time I'm just controlling the field and keeping mana open. If the opponent isn't running a creature heavy deck then the burn spells go straight to his face and all is well. If he is, I keep em handy to snipe away the threats and/or hoard them up for the finishing blow.

So far I've had great success with the build. It does well against creature base decks which it stalls out and then burns over the top of, and non-creature builds that it can just directly burn away without fear of needing the ammo to snipe an annoying creature.

Obviously the sideboard needs to reflect some other ways to deal with things, but as blue is in here and I can run counter-tastic stuff I'm not overly worried about it.

I definitely respect decks that go for the fast damage with swiftspear and stormchaser, I've made quite a few of them, but for this one I was going for a more control build that occasionally gets lucky with a turn 1 delver but overall relies on control to win the game.

I hate to say it, but this deck is sort of all over the place. You only run 8 creatures, but you have 4 aruas that are worthless without a creature, and none of your 8 creatures are for attacking anyway. If you're running it just for hexproof then you are wasting a lot of time and card advantage protecting a 3 drop creature that isn't a win condition anyway. Same thing with swiftfoot boots, its just not worth running 6 things that hexproof when you only have 4 creatures you want to hexproof.

Elixir of immortality doesn't really have a place in here. 5 life won't save you and there really isn't a reason to shuffle cards back in other than to refill the burn ratio, and on top of that it conflicts with pyromancer ascension, so I wouldn't bother running it at all.

I would put serious thought into rethinking what's going on in this deck. I know you want to keep the staticaster, but since its not a win condition and is only conditionally good, I would consider swapping it out for thermo-alchemist, which in my opinion is one of the best additions to burn/control decks ever. It's a win condition and if necessary an early game blocker, and if they manage to remove it then they used removal on a 2 drop, which isn't the end of the world.

You are also running zero blue control, which would go a long way in this deck. 4 remands will help you tremendously as they buy you time early game and are basically never a dead draw as they replace themselves. at least 3 electrolyze as they can burn off early/small creatures or be thrown directly at the life during your opponent's turn, and always replaces itself. It combo's wonderfully with thermo-alchemist as well, as you will get 4 damage and another card when the two hit at the same time.

It would be good to run 4 sleight of hands as they will help the tactical consistency of this deck and ups the turn 1 plays this deck can make, which is always good.

I know they are kind of pricy, but running the search lands will help this deck a ton as well as it only needs 1-2 mana to function and only a max of 4 to play anything, so the fetch lands will thin out the deck of lands so middle and late game you wont top deck a land every other turn.

I have a few decks built like my suggestions if you want to take a look at them, just let me know.

Again, I'm not trying to diss your deck or you, but there seems to me to be a lot of work that needs to be done here. Just my thoughts.

What are you willing to pay to make this one? A few improvements could be made here, but some of them are decently costly

Also, you have some of the best color combinations for sideboard options, so if you want suggestions on that let me know.

I see a few potential problems in this deck.

26 lands is way too high for what you need going on in here. I know you want to run the collonades as your win conditions, but 26 lands is good enough to choke you out in the opening and keep you drawing dead lands in the middle and endgame, even with the 8 fetch lands. I would trim out 1 ghost quarter and at least 1 colonnade.

As your deck stands, the early game control balance is close to nonexistent. You have blessed alliance, spell snare, and path to exile, all of which are conditional responses (though not bad at all), and just aren't enough to ensure that you can stop the opponent's development or fast agro, both of which should be able to shut you down once he gets up and running.

Logic knot is a conditional mana leak that wont help you in your opening hand basically at all, and this deck will absolutely flounder if it doesn't have something to do turn 2. I would suggest 4 mana leaks as they dominate the opening and aren't complete dead draws in late game competitive as good players run fetch lands and have decks that get by on 3-4 mana. Remand is another spell that would work well in that spot as its never a dead draw and buys you an extra turn if you drop it in the first few turns.

Cryptic command has never worked for me in bulk in tri-colored modern decks. It's super hard to get the 3 blue you need in time for the card to help you in the opening or middle game, and having it sit in your hand as a brick just isn't worth the lategame gain. I never run more than 1, because you don't want it in your opening hand or really to draw it at all until you have 4 available lands. Also, in order to make it work quickly, the balance of your hand is just terrible. You will have it available turn 4, and if you play first, that means of the 10 cards you have available at that point (7 off the start and 3 draws for turns 2, 3, and 4), 4 of them are lands and 1 of them is command, which leaves only 5 for other control in the opening. And that's if you get the lands that give you 3 blue and don't have to mulligan.

Think twice has never really worked for me either as it doesn't generate you advantage until the middle/late game, so in terms of control its a dead draw. Running 4 means you have a good chance of pulling it in the opening hand which just kills your control of the early game which is essential.

Sphinx's revelation has a similar themed problem as above as its a dead draw in the opening and isn't really worth the effort until you get at least 6ish mana, so it will be a brick in your hand until the late middle/end game. I never run more than 1, but running 1 is a great idea.

4 esper charm seems a bit much as it gives you conditional advantage and many decks in modern don't care about the enchantment destruction and will already have enough on the field turn 3 to not be destroyed by the discard outlet. I would run 2 tops, which gives you more spots for fast control elements like remand or some 1 drop discard options like inquisition of kozilek/thoughtseize.

Mainboarding leyline of sanctity is a risky move in modern. Sure it stalls out burn, mill, and a few combo builds, but it does nothing against the rest of the tier 1 and borderline nothing against tier 2, the odd custom job, or anti-meta. Running 2 in the sideboard is a fantastic idea, but putting them in game 1 is just too risky. I would even consider a third in the side as they do devastate the decks it designed to work against. You would get more advantage out of cards that work on every deck.

Please don't take this feedback the wrong way. I'm not trying to put you down or insult your deck. These are just honest thoughts about control builds in modern and the advantage you can get from maximizing what you can do in the early game and going into the middle game with a good position. If you let the opponent win the development state when you're playing a control build, the game is pretty much over.