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Playing a variety of colors to include some favorite and awesome cards. No Force of Wills because I don't own them, and don't plan to buy them at their costs. Same with other crazy costed cards... I should maybe explain the budget part quick as several people are seeming to understand... I already own the 2 JtMS and it's not hard to pull him from the deck. After that, the deck is under $200 pretty easily which is practically 1/10 of the cost of a normal "pro" version of Team America and the average cost of a Legacy build tends to run closer to $2000 after adding all the Beta Dual lands and such. So, I still feel fairly justified in calling it budget for Legacy. Plus, most of the land are good pickups anyways as they can be used in a million different decks. Hope this clears things up a bit...
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After making most of this, I guess I realized it was basically just a cheaper version of Team America, which is fine to me I guess. Copied some of the ideas after that (like Tombstalker) though not all by any means. Any suggestions would be great. I'm not planning to enter tournaments with this so I'm not building a sideboard. More just to play casually with friends...
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I want another awesome threat or two (besides Tombstalker because I don't want to go buy more and it feels too much like netdecking). Any good suggestions?
hmm... maybe if you explained this deck i'd have a few suggestions, lol
Well, originally I just wanted to play some awesome older cards that I owned or had been planning to acquire... Then I realized green didn't do too much for the deck besides provide the awesomeness that is Quirion Dryad and as it developed it ended up looking much more like Team America. Basically, Team America plays 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Tombstalker as creatures plus a bunch of hand disruption, counters, and filtering/card draw. Turns out, my deck is basically the same type of thing. It's kinda like a psuedo-control deck that goes a bit more proactive with awesome, cheap threats. Speaking of threats, that's part of where this deck is currently lacking a fair amount. I'd considered Psychatog but it didn't seem too great in here to be honest. Any ideas on cheap, but powerful (for killing people) creatures I could run that don't cost a fortune (a.k.a. goyf)? Also, for now it's fairly spread out as far as the card selection goes, but it's the start of the deck so I'm not sure how much I'll need/want a lot of the cards and many are for testing. Originally I wanted to have 4 Gitaxian Probe to use with 4 Cabal Therapy. While I still think this is sick, I don't have enough creatures to really make the best use of Cabal Therapy...
well.. I really only know of standard cards, mainly. and the best creatures in standard right now are titans. D:
Haha, fair enough. Thanks for tryin' though. I'll just be sure to hit you up with my next standard/block deck then.:)
here's a creature to think about, Llawan, Cephalid Empress. Four mana, UU. Shuts down Bant, and fish, while bouncing threats like Inkwell/Stormtide Levithan, and Progenitus. I'm not really all that familiar with team america, I'm more of a Canadien Tempo person when it comes to that sort of thing. But from the looks of it, I think you should consider Trygon Predator. Also, I just don't know how I feel about Probe here, if the deck usually calls for Street Wraith it's a major upgrade, but I think it should be mostly restricted to combo, or Bant. Like the deck though, very interesting design.
Yeah, originally Probe was meant as a sick combo with Cabal Therapy but as I continued building I realized that there weren't enough creatures to really take advantage of the flashback cost... I've still got one just for testing purposes but I could definitely see it being cut so thanks for that. Trygon Predator is an Excellent Idea!!! I can't believe I didn't think about that! Thank you so much! Making changes now! Llawan seems great, but more as a sideboard card and I'm not really planning to use this much out of casual play so I'm not too sure about it but I'll keep it in mind for sure. Thanks again!:)
Glad I could be of a service for once, usually you make standard, where I have NO idea what I'm doing *_*;
Haha, true true. Most of my friends usually only play standard or casual multiplayer stuff but a few are getting a bit more into legacy so I had to brew up a deck.:) Glad I can finally pretend to "fit in" with you legacy buffs. Haha.
Psssssh, if you're smart enough not to try and cram a playset of the wallet sculptor into all your decks you fit in :P Seriously though, I think you're going to enjoy legacy, and this seems like a neat way to break into the format from standard. I think I'm going to have to look into this 'Team America' stuff.
Awesome! :) Legacy seems great, but I can't afford the beta duals so I'm just goin "cheap" for now.:) Yeah, Team America is interesting and I'd never really known much about it but as I built this list I started noticing how similar it was to lists I'd heard of or seen briefly before so I looked it up. Looked solid enough so I kept goin with it.
There are a few good decks that actually are improved with the lack of the old school duals, Dredge in particular has amazing results, and waaay more interaction than a lot of people credit it with.
Why is Dredge better without the old school duals? I love that deck, btw. I considered making one of those types of decks instead of this but in the end decided this gave me more flexibility to play a bigger variety of my favorites.:)
The usual dredge deck runs about 14 lands, non of which are fetches, so really it's better to make the fish matchup better by running Darkslick Shores. In dredge you use a lot of rainbow lands as well, but if you go the U/B route instead, Darkslick Shores is the way to go. It also gets around things like Choke, so unless the dredge player wants to run a playset of Daze, they have no real reason to run stuff like Underground Sea.
Hmm. That's really weird. I guess I just assumed almost any deck in legacy (other than affinity) got better with the dual lands if it was multicolored... Makes sense though.
Nine times out of ten, it will be better, but with the off cases like Dredge, it hampers more than helps. Also, the list seems to have been improved with the increased threat package you've got. How're you liking the Predator?
Well, I've had very little time to test it actually at this point with finals week at college... I'm planning to get more playtesting in this weekend though. I'll update you a bit more after that. Thanks again for your help so far, though.:)
Yeeck, I dread only one final, and that's English. I can USUALLY convey my thoughts rather well, but I have never liked the structuring of it... I prefer Deutsch from what I've learned so far, but I have difficulty there with the pronunciation... TL;DR=I want to change my English to Deutsch for finals.
Ha, yeah... I'm not a big fan of English classes. I usually do well in them but they really suck.:/ I've never taken Deutsch before. Sounds cool, though.
Huh, not bad at all for a budget legacy deck. I will warn you that Extraction would murder this deck =/ Thankfully, not that many people run Extraction (yet), so you'll be safe for a while. Great deck though, and the land base is perfect. =]
While I'll admit that extraction is probably not the best matchup for my deck, I would like to at least point out that I do have a fair number of counterspells and Hymn to Tourach can ruin almost any deck. I mean, extraction still probably beats it MOST of the time, but I wouldn't think it should be entirely one-sided.:/ But thanks. So far the land base has seemed great, which is nice.:)
Oh of course. It would be tough, but not impossible like the combo/storm vs. Extraction matchup =P
the extraction vs. storm MU is BULLCRAP! I missed a turn two combo kill because I got my wish dazed, and extirpated... Then they Iso-seeked my tendrils on their turn... Not cool with that, not cool with it at all.
Yeah? I'd honestly feel like combo/storm should be fairly one-sided. As WhiteAndBlue pointed out, the extractor really only needs to pull out their combo "target" (aka Tendrils) and that's usually game. Easier said than done when facing countermagic and whatnot but still... I do feel like besides the incredible speeds of some of those decks, it shouldn't be terribly hard to beat them. Idk. Maybe with their speed but extraction's easy win ability I'd suppose it'd be a fairly even matchup. I suppose you would know better, though.
Nah, storm/combo against Extraction is almost comically one-sided. FoW just prolongs the inevitable, and is a clear sign of a "panic reaction". Beyond that though...they have next to no real defense. AND nothing beats playing Extirpate on their FoW and watching them crap themselves.
Oh, I see. For some reason I thought you were saying Extraction was bad vs. combo... Not the other way around. That makes so much more sense... Haha.
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Ok, so making some changes. Against my friends, Artifacts and Enchantments don't seem to be too critical in some games so I'm taking out 1 Trygon Predator for now. Also, my one friend tends to play a lot of black so the Snuff Out is coming out for now. Spell Pierces are coming in because he has a tendency to go turn 1 Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, and sometimes Duress/Inquisition.:/ I've also got a few other cards I had to try out and have liked for the most part like Ancestral Vision. I'll be playing a bit more with my friends this afternoon so I'll give a nice update probably some time tomorrow and see if there were any other major changes that seem needed. The Predator may be coming back in, but we'll see. I'm just not sure what to drop for the 2nd one at this point.. I do actually tend to hit most of my land drops pretty well with the massive amount of card draw here so I may consider going to 21 land, but I'm not convinced just yet that I really want to do that..
this deck is cool
that is a really helpful post there Linvala...
As is yours Stillmoon, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for telling is that Linvala's post is the most helpful, and informative post other than your own. Also, @Edna; I can see how you might not need the Predator as much as I do, I'm still trying to figure out MWS, and so far on there the most popular thing must be Countertop or my luck is just stupid... I'm thinking the latter...
@WhiteAndBlue: That's funny, although a bummer. I didn't think Countertop had been doing as well recently, although maybe it's on the rise again.:/ I think it's a neat deck honestly, but I could see how it'd be annoying to play against.
Countertop is never really going to die it looks like :/ It's kind of like Goblins, it's going to be there till the day MtG dies I think. It's a really fun trick to work with, and it's an easy shell to shove something in. If you've never tried one, try doodling a list up, it's pretty fun.
Yeah, I suppose, huh? haha. I'll have to look into a build. I already have 3 tops on hand.:)
Haha. Yeah, so... I've got more changes to make. I played over half a dozen games with another friend piloting what is basically an extended version of elves and is crazy fast. I had many close games against it but in the end it was just far too much for my deck to handle due to it's speed. I ended up swapping in 2 Black Sun's Zenith over the Spell Pierce which did little against his deck. It may be beneficial in the end to actually construct a sideboard and put one of each in the main. One is good against Elves and the other is good against the non-aggro decks of the format. Black Sun's Zenith did seem quite good overall but at the same time never seemed to quite do enough. Any suggestions for similar, but perhaps better options? Something similar than can be good vs a variety of quick aggro? Also, 22 land seemed to be too much as well which still just seems odd to me but I cut one to put the 2nd Trygon Predator in. Against Elves he did little but was even nice if I got to the late game as just an additional blocked when needed. Against the elf deck, Diabolic Edict maybe would have been better as a 4th Go for the Throat though the Edict is occasionally more useful. So, I may go 1 Edict, 4 GftT. I'm also going to look into acquiring some Mental Mistep because I think it would actually be better than Spell Pierce in virutally any matchup. It can counter Dark Ritual, 1-drop Elves (can be hugely important) and so many other things. Counterspell, unfortunately, is a little slow for Legacy in general but was very good in situations. Force of Will would probably be much better, but there's no way I'm spending $90 per Force... I only have 2 Jaces in here because I got lucky enough to get them through trading type stuff. So... Final word: I'm loving the deck and it seems super good but has a bad aggro matchup. How do I fix this without conceding too much to the combo/control decks? Thanks for all your help so far.:)
Ok, made room for a couple Mental Misstep and a fourth Hymn over a 2nd Duress. I think these should help shore up both matches quite nicely. I'm looking at building a sideboard now, too. What decks do you think I need to sideboard most against?
Just out of curiosity, how much does this deck cost. Also, can you check out my standard tournament deck, I need advice on it. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=185319
Well, if you don't count the Jaces in here (which are $85 each)... Then the cost is about $70 for the actual spells and maybe $115-120 for the lands. These are fairly rough estimates which then I'd say put the deck at a little under $200 + 2 Jaces. Adding the Jace it's closer to $370 or so.
I realize over $300 isn't exactly most people's idea of "budget" but the Jaces I already have had for quite some time and didn't spend a nickel on - just trading and one was when it was much cheaper and my friends and I didn't pay much attention to prices... Beyond this, the land base is quite expensive but is similar where I've owned all of the Fetch lands ahead of time and are worth the costs anyways. The Shock Lands I just recently bought, but at about $10 each, they're very reasonable compared to the Beta duals (Underground Sea is well over $100!). Most of the other cards are all under $5 each, except Tombstalker ($10). So sorry if the title is a little misleading. It is on a budget, compared to the "pro" version of Team America which is closer to $2000 to build... The land and Jace are really the source of the costs and if you don't own any fetchlands yet, you should invest because they're not going to drop in price any time soon, especially the blue ones.
Nice Force-less Team America variant. You may want to run extra Black Sun's Zenith if you are planning on using it as a defense against aggro. Looks fun to play. Also, how are Jace the Mind Sculptor and Misty Rainforest budget? Doesn't Jace cost even more than Force of Will does?
If you read the comment above it explains this. Misty Rainforest is still pretty cheap I'd say - a bit over $10 compared to the UB fetch from Onslaught block which is over $30. As for the Jace, they are obviously not budget but they are the only 2 cards worth over $15 and I already happened to have a couple through trades so I figured I may as well play them. So if you remove the Jaces (which are now down in price considerably and roughly equal to Force in value) the deck is pretty easily under $200. Keep in mind that your average top 8 Legacy deck is probably closer to $2000! Plus, even most of the better standard decks cost over $500 now days (probably closer to $300 if you remove the Jaces). So all in all, I feel like I can pretty safely say it's budget. If you don't have JtMS, you can easily swap them out for other cards. I don't even think this is the best deck for him, but like I said, if you got him you may as well use him...
I feel pretty lucky, the dredge I just posted is budget friendly too. about two-hundred US without the board, and less than three-hundred with :D Also, I am also amused by the fact that this is just now marked finished.
Wtf? Did you JUST update this to say "finished deck"? If so, that's frickin hilarious.
Yeah... Guess I forgot to change it before. Oops... Haha.