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This deck is built around Karn, Liberated. Enough said.
This deck has been viewed 12,718 times.
Always tapped out, no good early defense.. Bad
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Tapped out??? Bad defense??? I have tons of mana ramp!!
yes u have 25 lands but only 6 ramps. for a deck like this to run u need more mana ramps. rampant growth, kodama's reach, harrow,k etc.. thats what where talking about. u need this early game just having 25 lands isnt ramping at all thats saying hay i have enough lands but thats still only one per turn. o add birds of paradise too
Look at it now!!
Oh yeah, VERY high mana curve. :|
Yes, but I have 25 lands and ramping.
I like the idea, but the question is will you ever be able to get the idea out?
Yes. All I need is suggestions. This is a rough draft!
The first modification I would preform is making one-of's for every Chancellor and Praetor.
I don't really like that for the Chancellors because of their ability. But I will with Praetors, only what to put in?
Try putting in things like Phyrexian Revoker, Hex Parasite, counters, and other low-cost spells that will at least instill some control in the game.
Okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Tournament Quality" really?!?!?!!? 18 7+ spells and you think this could stand a remote chance against caw blade?
Well, considering my sidebord, I think I will do fine against Jace, the Mind Sculptor with Vampire Hexmage and Sword of Feast and Famine with Crush.
I'm sorry but this deck wont stand a chance in any tournament. 25 lands 3 explore 3 cultivate and 2 Chancellor of the Tangle is not ramp, it will be at least 6 turn until you play a decent spell and by that time any agressive deck will have killed you, valakut will be doing it in a few turn, with despise, jace, a few hawks with swords on them and very possibly a counter in hand, caw blade will be tear this deck too shreads. Again i'm sorry but please don't label decks tournament quality until you tested them thoughtfully.
Lord_ouriel has deleted this comment.
Well don't just tell him/her that they don't stand a chance - help them!!!
thats what i would do but to help this deck i would have to change too much of it for it to be his deck.... but i will try: youre trying to play all the ledgendar mythics in this set and all the chancellors, i dont think you can do that and still have a good deck, try 2-3 colors and stick with thos. I would suggest losing white and red putting in go for the throat, some more ramp like birds of paradise, everflowing chalice sphere of the suns or something else, maybe harrow? also try preordain, its probably the best 1 cost spell in T2 and definatly the most played. good luck
I like the deck now!!
i dnt see how this got 33 likes thats terrible
Thanks so much! Not!!
man just take a look at those cards if you realy wanted to create a real deck eith these real cards man it was the best deck in the world... these new cards destoyed magic the gahering starting with the lorwyn colection after that man magic is never going o be what it was. it was suppost to be fun and with these new spells and cards come on cards likestart the game again pay 5 for a 5/5 with all fucking abilityes not even going to mention planeswalkers this things riuned magic the gathering it is a shame this was such a nice game...
Yeah!!!!!!!
Dimir. I agree with you, too a point there's been good and bad. The cost efficiency is ridiculous, though New Phyrexia does have some less cost effective cards. the Chancellor's are interesting. Lorowyn may have been where the cost efficiency thing started, but Lorowyn was still good. Infect is unbalanced and should never have been made the way it was. Maybe if they had made it more like the original Poison mechanic but with creature deterioration, it would have been better. I have no problem with the Planeswalker mechanic, nor with Karn in particular, as Planeswalkers are relatively vulnerable, other than the ones like Mind Sculptor, where it has an instantaneous win. Magic is a mutable, changing game. It's better that way. If you just got more of the same, it would be boring. They just need to stop trying to speed up the game to where every deck either has a third turn win or completely shuts down the opponent by then. Also, there have always been oddball cards with bizarre abilities akin to starting over, not just Karn and Lich's Mirror, as well as alternate win conditions, that hasn't changed much.
Good comment!!
yeah..lotus cobra seems good in this deck along with BoPs. think about it http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=179767 check out mine and tell me what you think if ya want
Nice deck!!
really, you desperately need to focus that down to 2 colores, i'd say focus into black and green, for grave titan, the black praetor, and ob-nixilis (on t1 you play a tapsac land) speaking of tap sacs, green will let you run harrow, explore, lotus cobra, overgrown battlement, birds, and even a llanowar elf. If you really wanted to strech it play red too, for inferno titan (great, but other black ones are better) but then you could play arc trails and bolts too, not terrible, gives you artifact hate, land hate, creature hate, and good ramp, plus a few bombs. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=180314 take a look at that one, i think it's how it should be built, 12 tap sac lands, ob-nix, grave titan, birds, llanowar, battlements, lotus cobras, and a few black removal in there too...
FETCH!!!!!!!!
I have to agree with everyone in saying you need more ramp. But I really like the idea of this deck. You should remove some of your fatties and throw in little green mana producers. Llanowar Elves, Battlement, Birds, etc.. Use of fetchlands will help with rapid deck thinning. I don't normally do this, but if you could give me some suggestions on this deck. I've hit a wall in the build. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=180380
I already have removed the fatties!!!
This is hardly a ramp system. Way to much heavy cast. It wont get anywhere in tourny play.
Oh really!!!
TBH all but Chancellor of the Annex suck. -1 Tangle -1 Spires -1 Forge -1 Dross +2 BoP +4 Joraga Treespeaker Karn is best utilized by cheating out high costing things that all but end the game. The Blue and green praetor are the only two of the 5 praetors that do this so drop all the others, add maybe one more copy of each, and possibly throw in blightsteels. They're a turn 1 game if you reset the game with karn and have him in play turn 0. Also, by removing all but the white chancellor and all but the blue and green praetor, you can completely remove red and black from the deck. -1 Elesh Norn -1 Sheoldred -1 Urabrask +1 Vorinclex +1 Jin-Gitaxias -4 Lightning bolt. +3 Harrow. -3 Moutain -2 Blackcleave -2 Copperline -2 darkslick +2 Razorverge +2 Seachrome +3 Sunpetal Grove +3 Glacial Fortress
This is hardly tournament quality, dude. It would get torn apart very quickly.
I am changing it!!
Well, good. But also, if you're basing a deck around something as influencial as a planeswalker.. you should probably run 4 copies.
No, they are 7 mana. If they get stuck in your hand, that is bad!
Not quite true! If you have a Karn out and another stuck in your hand, what could possibly be better than exiling your own Karn and resetting the game with another one already in play!
this is why i hate this site, decks like this get 70 likes???? wtf?!?!!
Why do you dislike that? This is going to be a popular idea, and when a deck generates enough conversation, it gets likes. When a deck get's enough likes, it goes to the front page. There are lessons to be learned about deck building theory, contained within the conversations of this deck and others that make it to the front page, made more accessible to the greater part of the community by being there. How is that bad?
I couldn't have worded that better myself. This poor guy posted this deck for suggestions and is getting ripped apart by ignorant people. I've been playing Magic since just before Fallen Empire's and I know how to build a decent deck and sometimes even great decks that are innovative, but ever since I found this sight my deck building skills have improved a bit, with the combined knowledge of everyone on this sight it makes it eaiser to get suggestions of cards you may not have thought of. Granted, there have been times where I may have jumped the gun and torn a deck down, but I always tried to make suggestions to improve it rather than just say it's bad. That helps no one. Plus, others on this sight, including myself sometimes, need to remember that not everyone may not be a veteren to magic and this could be a HUGE new thing to them. We've all been, Timmy, Johnny, and the like at some point...
If Lord_oriel "hates" this site, then why is he on it making a fuss?
check out my karn deck, it runs SO MUCH FASTER AND SMOOTHER!!!!!
Yeah right!!
like for tips. if you want karn out in tournament before people will kill him you need mana ramp. mono green is the best and with elfs its so fast its dumb..
Wow not to be a d-bag but this is like a giant bumbling moron plodding along just asking to get punched in the face. My suggestion is go with Ghost1599 but focus around getting Karn out, exile the Blue and Green Preator then reset and control your opponent.
Ta-kun has deleted this comment.
WALL OF OMENS
i dont like Karn, though i love this deck
I don't mean to give the same suggestions but i will try and help you out. i drew a sample hand and got 3 praetors and 1 land. i'd drop the praetors imo. instead add walls. wall of tanglecord is an artifact wall for 2 0/6 too. that way you don't have to drop the lands you want to play. i agree with the Wall of Omens! that would do wonders for this deck, same with Overgrown Battlement. as far as the 2-3 colors play the ones you want but make sure it fits around those colors strong points. if you're splashing blue just for a couple counterspells you may want to switch it to another color or take it out. If you're determined to keep blue run Dispels. it's the counter to counterspells. if i were playing against this deck i'd save my mana leaks for karn so dispel would nullify that. what also might help for ramp is eldrazi spawns. Nest invader, Kozilek's predator, growth spasm. those give you a body AND extra mana. for Karn anything Edlrazi will be extremely helpful! also look into adding maybe an Edlrazi for Karn to go Ultimate on. Hopefully this helps! i'm sorry if i'm changing more of your deck than you would like but those are my suggestions, do with them what you want! Good luck man! you get a "like" from me! ;)
I don't want to sound like an echo, but aggro will win out every time. I like the idea behind this deck, and it may become viable once Zendikar and M11 cycle out (WotC is trying to build a slower meta) but so long as we have power cards like Goblin Guide / Bushwhacker, and Squadron Hawk, etc.. making aggro / aggro control a viable meta threat, we won't see any slower decks make it to the top of tournaments for a while. Fact is, you can have all the ramp in the world, and this deck will still suffer lethal damage third turn from Kuldotha Red. You have a chance of slowing the current uber fast aggro meta with Chancelor of the Annex, but you don't have anything that capitalizes from that. At the very least, you need to main-board a full set of Mental Mistep, but even then you're still only chancing slowing them down enough to get your pieces in check. I love the idea you're playing with, restarting the game with a Praetor or two is pretty much saying "GG" right off the bat. But you need to focus so much on ramp to make that possible, that you don't have room to focus on an early game lock down to buy yourself time against the current meta. Still, big cheers from me, keep thinking outside the box! Maybe over time you can refine this to be viable. Never let people tell you you can't do it, this is how rogues are born and people become famous. ;P
Oh, also. In your current iteration Joraga Treespeaker does nothing for you. It's mana ramp that feeds off other ramp-Elves to make them more rampy. Without those elves, you're just looking at a creature for 1GG with "Add GG to your mana pool" You'd be better off with Llanowar Elves.
Clearly you've never played with the Treespeaker before. It's only flaw, is if you go to level it once, and it dies. If it lives to level however, it is the fastest form of mana ramp. If the Treespeaker lives to level, you can immediately follow up with something like Everflowing Chalice for 1, or an Explore, possibly dropping another land. Doing the math, both of those scenarios leave you with 5 mana showing, 6 if you have another land on turn 3.
Small edit, saying that it's the fastest form of consistent mana. In this example, I'm excluding Lotus Cobra.
maybe add squad hawks for some early on creatures.......
Thanks guys for all of you'r comments!! That's how bad this deck is wow!!!! Here's the deal: Karn is the win condition Praetors aside. So I agree: Take the Praetors out. But I am only going to take one out!!
I don't think you'll have much problem finding the right color to cast now. I'd say drop Sphere of the Suns and Llanowar Elves, and add 2x more Wall of Omens and 4x Overgrown Battlement. And then, drop the other two Praetors and replace them with Jin-Gitaxias for 3x total. He's an instant win when resetting with Karn.
Too many hate comments
Exactly!!!!!!!!
haha that's why i liked this deck, cause there is so much ragespam liek this: ARRGH Y IZ THIZ NOOOB DEC GETTIN MOAR LIEKZ TAHN MY UW CAW-BLAED (NET DECKING FTW) ITZ NOTT EVEN PLAYING JACE TEH WALLET SCULPTOR HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE GOOD WTF?!?!? lolz
Do you mean that?? :(
Wow everyone is so mean to your deck D:
i wasnt being serious... i was satirizing those bitches who hate your deck.... i like your deck man
This deck rocks.
Thanks!!!!!
maybe because your going to restart thegame with karn, wall of shards? great defence and when you reset the game, they lose the life gain from its stay in ability.
I'll try it out!!!
Hey Mate, When I first saw this list, the negative comments were fair but now the main deck is looking pretty darn solid! The only maindeck change may be a 3rd kahn for the white praetor? You dont have any draw really except omens and you kinda want to play kahn asap every game yeah? Otherwise great! SIDEBOARD HOWEVER...Take out all the black and red and then you can take out the cobras. Bant colours are versatile enough to deal with artifacts (divine offering) and other things you are worried about...put in more counters, maybe baneslayers..? Just yeah, change the sideboard!
I know it doesnt make to much of a difference but, just change cancel to stoic rebuttal. It could somehow in some extreme condition be better but its impossible for it to be worse Also idk how good this deck is from just looking at it but, i kinda feel like more control is needed maybe just 1-2 journey to nowheres or some day of judgements would help and ur sideboard is bad Just change it up
This is a bogus deck built for a bogus planeswalker.
I did some playtesting with this deck in MWS and... If you don't get the win swing with Karn, you will do a lot of nothing for a long time if you don't try what you need. After I think turn 40 I had two overgrown battlements, 6 other walls, and 15 lands. I then drew a whole bunch of nothing after that. I think the main problem with this deck is theirs very limited win conditions
I think if you want to use Karn well you have to just forget his ultimate and use him as a control engine. I'm toying with the idea of a Karn version of RUG, gives you green ramp, blue draw/counter and red for those heavy aggro decks, a pyroclasm or slagstorm will solve your problems. You can also mix that with the approach that alot of ppl have done with tezz, artifact ramp and magnet control with black and red removal. either way, with karn you want to get him out at least by turn five, so you can still affect their hand size and get rid of any jaces, gideons, or swords that arein your way
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=180972 something like this...
Nice!!!!!!
...how does one build a deck around karn? ^.- and how does one do so with only 2...
Well, I restart the game with Karn after exiling Praetors from my hand. Then they come onto the battlefield when I start the game. I win!!!!!!
iunno, seems too hit and miss. besides i wouldn't want to exile my own praetors. i can see how that going off would be deadly. but like.. how do you find it's consistency? have you play-tested?
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Personally, I'd go G/B or G/U with this. Harrows, Battlements, etc. either way, Treespeaker is always nice. For Blue, mana leaks, disperse, sideboard situational counters to be used as necessary against the appropriate opponent, maybe do some prolif, to keep Karn up in case of attacks and/or to speed up the Restart Button.. For Black, replace all the counters with removal(kinda obvious I guess) and maybe a Diabolic Totur(that is still standard, isn't it?). Also, go for 4 Karns and like several others have said, go for the fetch land lands, just to thin out the deck to get Karn.
Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=180846 TAKE A LOOK AT MY HERIMIT DRUID COMBO DECK!
the deck is looking so much better then when i first saw it. i actualy had a deck for karn as well and i think between all of these suggestions someone will create a really nasty Karn deck. its lookin pretty good so far. here is my Karn deck for anyone who wants to check it out. Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=180155
I know tons of people have said this, but I agree with putting in overgrown battlements instead of the wall of tanglecords. Overall a pretty cool deck though; props. O and I love all the hate going on, people willing to criticize a deck without any explanation or purpose. They are by far the coolest people on this site. Almost as cool as the guy who tried to argue with me that Dark Ritual should be reprinted for standard.
oops sorry didn't see them in there lol, well nevermind then. Good job
guard gomazoa instead of the tanglecords then
get rid of the jin-taxias, core augur. YOu're almost certain not getting it out, as you have 1 in your deck and it costs a ridiculous 10 mana. replace it with a lotus cobra or something.
Thats why it's a Karn deck, he uses Karn to cast stuff like that easier, but he also has a lot of mana ramp.
cool look at my gideon´s parasite
I think the point is not to play praetors? Just use karn to get them? Anyways I quite like it!
You are right!!!!
in that case... why not eldrazis :S
Ok so.. big issue I see? 10 green lands to your 17 white lands. 21 green cards (most of which you want to play early) to your 9 white cards... Something just isn't adding up here. Land base needs major fixing. Plus, it's a Karn deck right? Karn = 4 of! Karn can exile himself when you have another in your hand and you want to restart the game and go for even more "Karnage."
He is right here. The amount of green mana you have available will limit you severely. For this deck to work you will need green mana for your first three turns to get the ramp. The blue is second most important because of counters the white should be be very limited. I would say 5 forest, 3 islands, 2 plains, 2 glacial fortress, 4 Razorverge Thicket, 3 Seachrome Coast, and 4 Sunpetal Grove.
...if the white should be limited, then why 8 g/w duals?
I agree, if its build arround Karn you need 4 Karns. Maybe take out 2 wall of omens or tanglecords. I dont know if chancellor of annex will be efficient, There is only one in your deck, so in the majority of matches you will not have on your oppening hand, when you will be able to finale resolve it, dont means you cant stop the agro decks, and against control its still not efficient, since they would probably have mana to pay, and you dont have tectonic edges to stop their lands. The Karn, Jin Gitaxias combo is interesting, you can exile him, restart the game and its GG, but you need you need to have him in hand. For lands i would get rid of dual lands that could possibly enter battle tapped and just go with basic lands and correspondent fetchlands, then you can add lotus cobra, and ramp something big really fast, since harrow, cultivate and explore have a good sinergy with cobra. Having mana leak is always good, but i dont think that is the deck proposal, you cannot cover every aspect, mainly when you dont have preordain and jace. Sideboard seens not good too, slagstorm cost 2 red and 1 colorless, and just having 4 mountains on side do not garanteed you to have mana to cast it in time against the agro, since you will probably need to cast harrow or cultivate, and it will resolve on turn 3 if you get lucky, i think pyroclasm is better, but I would just change all the SB to fit better with the rest of the deck. Elesh Norn is a cool card but something is just wrong, It is too exposed to go for the throat and doom blades. Melira is a good card to have, maybe at least 3 on SB. Karn could have some trouble, to be protected against hero of oxid ridge, since you will only have 0 power creatures that will not be able to block. I like the deck idea, and i think it could work very good, but it still need many improvements. The above idea to bring 2 blue and 2 green preatons is good, since they are GG, but you still have the hero of oxid ridge and flyers problem. The main problem when we see a good combo is not to see if they could resolve in time, when they resolve its GG, when they not you loose the game. Off course having Karn on the table is a great advantage, but to realize the "Main" combo you need at least 3 turns After resolving Karn, and have the right cards in hand, you still need to protect karn for these turns. I think there is a big hole between the alls and karn and the praetors. Some sugestions would maybe be some summoning traps, mid level creatures for a ramp deck like baneslayer, linvala, emeria angel with the fetchlands, and not too many walls, primeval titan is not bad for the ramping and the protection duty, Joraga is always a very good ramping creature. Maybe some tectonic edges on SB to rule control decks. Plus the Sinergy with Lotus Cobra and Overgrown + Fetchlands + Primeval + Vorinclex is enough to end any game, if something goes wrong just summontrap a Gitaxias maybe and its GG. And Finally I would just go Mono Green or WG, in that case Gitanxias and leaks could be a problem, but Karn will still rule the battefield. Those are just sugestions to be tested.
Maybe check out my Karn deck? I mean, if you're just going to be using him to exile stuff, you can get a little more creative than just the new praetors. Emrakul is still standard legal for about 5 months.. so why not him? Or Urabrask the Hidden? Then it's basically just a scoop due to the haste. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=180618 <--- My Karn deck.
Karn's real only great skill is teh -3 remove from game any freakin thing. Also, why no misty Rain Forests..they would help thin the deck and make sure you draw better cards. 7 manlands just seem like way to much imo. Otherwise like the stall and draw in the deck if ya want check out my deck and tell me what ya think.
I honestly would make this deck Green Black. With Green you get the mana ramp which is looking good in this deck. With black you get great spot removal like quag sickness, doomblade, and go for the throat. With black you also get search power with Diabolic Tutor. In this type of deck Getting what you need right away is key. If your attached to the blue Praetor you can run it with out blue mana because the goal is to exile it anyway. If your attached to blue I would consider running Mass Polymorph. It is a little costly but it is cheaper then Praetors. Also this deck must absolutely have 4 Karns. This deck is based on Karn and will absolutely flop if Karn does not get out. So limiting your chances of drawing it by only putting in 2 makes you less likely to win.
An edit: You are running too many creatures to run Mass Polymorph. Maybe some wing splicers because it gives you two creatures for 4. Also try to get some blockers with reach or flying.
since this deck is based around karn, at least include a playset of him, unless you have a motherfucking shitload of card draw.
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=182620 works muuuuuch better
Try adding some thrumming birds to proliferate Karn, I have busted two of him so far and I was going to build a standard black/blue control deck. Can you check out my standard tournament deck, I need advice on it. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=185319