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A buddy of mine created a white blue control deck that is basically just pissing me off. So this is my response. I would appreciate suggestions as this is my first try for a discard style deck.
My idea here is to use my one and two drop sorceries aggressively right in the beginning to try to make my opponent burn thru his opening hand to deprive him of options. Phyrexian Arena and Temple Bell are both three drops to allow extra card draw, Temple Bell also forcing your opponent to draw which comes in very useful once Liliana's Caress is on the field. Once you get Painful Quandary out you've basically boxed them in to the proverbial corner, and between Caress and The Rack their health should wind down. The variant I have set up right now has creatures in it that support the discard mechanic, however depending on the type of deck you're playing I sideboarded several kill spells that could be used in place of some or all of those creatures.
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Mind Twist, was god back in the day.Now he is just too slow and too banned. I have 4 copies of Mind Twist (I payed 20 bucks for) AND NEVER USE THEM, with my discard decks. Idea is like this, by the time you get to play Mind Twist OPPONENT SHOULD BE OUT OF CARDS anyways. Same issue with Liliana's Caress. Way too damn slow!!!Quest for the Nihil Stone is so much faster! Something like Funeral Charm and Nihil Stone is brutal. Much better, in my opinion, than Mind Twist and Caress.
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Thanks for the tip. I was thinking that it may be too slow, but wasn't sure. Liliana's caress is a two drop though, so do you mean that it's too slow to have an Impact as its only two points per discard?
IF you are going for a pure discard deck...it should be about speed. Lots of discard cards. A second turn Hymn to Tourach/Chain of Smog or second turn Duress/Inquisition is way faster than Liliana's Caress.What I mean is, in my opinion/experience, you want your opponent discarding a card/card EVERY SINGLE TURN. If you play a second turn Liliana's Caress you are allowing your opponent to cast a creature/artifact/enchantment on his second turn. I would consider these changes, and then test it against your friends.Take out the Shimian Specter, the Liliana's Caress, and the Mind Twist.Add in 3 Dark Ritual, 3 Quest for the Nihil Stone, 3 Funeral Charm. Imagine this, my friend:1st Turn. You Play a Swamp. You play a Dark Ritual for 3 mana. Now you play Quest for the Nihil Stone for 1 mana. You have 2 mana left. You then pay 1 mana to use a Funeral Charm on your opponent (he discards 1 card) and it puts 1 counter on the Nihil Stone. Now you have 1 mana left. You pay it to play Thoughtseize (he discards 1 card) and it puts another counter on Nihil Stone. ((((Or you could play Dark ritual, thoughtseize, surgical extraction. That is brutal too))))))On the very 1st Turn you have:Fully charget Quest for the Nihil Stone, when your opponent runs out of cards, he is going to take 5 damage every upkeep!!!Dropped your opponent down to 5 cards. If he plays a land and a creature on his 1st turn, then he is left with only 4 cards on his second turn!!!!Made him lose two of his very best cards on your 1st turn, hugely disrupting him and giving you the tempo advantage. 2nd turn. You now play a swamp and play Hymn to Tourach, and your opponent is down to 2 cards!!!Opponent's 2nd turn: He plays another land and another creature. He is out of cards, and is going to take 5 damage each turn from Nihil Stone. He will be dead in 4 turns.
Ok, so that is all spot on. I took those suggestions and ran a bit further with it taking out the Temple Bells, Volgraths Stronghold, two of the Painful Quandary cards to get it down to 60and speed it up a bit. However I have to admit I feel almost too bare with that setup, so I pulled out a Sangromancer and added 3 Corrupt Court Officials that should add a bit of blocking while not sacrificing a discard. Willing to spare any more thoughts?
Stuff like Court Officials is better than, in my opinion, stuff like Specters.Ravenous Rats are really good too, it does the same thing as Court Officials. You have no creature hate.I might consider this. Adding in 4 Diabolic Edict. It can kill indestructible and hexpoof creatures. I would take out the Painful Quandry and Sangromancer. They both work if your opponent casts spells. But, why the hell is your opponent casting spells to begin with? If you are fast enough with your discard, they will run out of cards before being able to play much of anything. SO those cards cost a lot of mana, are slow, and rely on your opponent to cast spells. Also, 4 Diabolic Edict will give you more 2 mana cards in your deck. You have 22 cards that cost only 1 mana...but only 7 cards that cost 2 mana. So that helps balance out your mana curve. Now...if you have done all of that...your highest mana card is now only 3 mana. So you don't really need Cabal Coffers. Not if you aren't running 4 and 5 mana cards. Have you looked into Guiltfeeder? It is 5 mana, but is brutal in this deck! I might add 2 of them in replace of Cabal Coffers. It has Fear (This creature can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or black creatures.)Whenever Guiltfeeder attacks and isn't blocked, defending player loses 1 life for each card in his or her graveyard.Guiltfeeder is 0/4. Which sucks, right? But here is where he rocks in this deck: "defending players loses 1 life for each card in his graveyard."Play him on Turn 5. On Turn 6, if your opponent has 5 cards in the graveyard then Guiltfeeder does 5 damage. IF your opponent has 8 cards in his graveyard then Guiltfeeder does 8 damage. If your opponent has 10 cards in his graveyard, then he does 10 damage.So...with Quest for the Nihil Stone...lots of discard cards to charge the Nihil Stone up/make your opponent lose all his cards. PLUS Guiltfeeder being pumped up because of all the cards your opponent is discarding (plus if he plays any sorcery/instant spells that just adds to the number of cards he has in the graveyard)...it is a brutal combination.Much better than stuff like The Rack, or Liliana's Caress, or Painful Quandry. Goodluck.
And i speak of this from person.I have a friend that has a deck close to what I just described. He killed me so many damn times!!I would be taking 5 damage from Nihil Stone by turn 3, every game! Every single turn, 5 damage! And if he ever got out his Guiltfeeder...i would start crying. lol. And I had a red/black discard deck with Burning Inquiry, The Rack, and Liliana's Caress. He showed me what I am trying to tell you:1) Use lots of discards spells (16-or more discard cards)2) Make them discard every turn3) Stuff like Nihil Stone is much quicker then Caress/Rack/Quandary
Ok, so I was actually thinking about replacing the Sangromancer and Painful Quandary with Diabolic Edict because I was still feeling too bare, however I did not see Guiltfeeder when searching the Vault. Just trying to play out the turns in my head though, and with the limited amount of land I am putting in my deck I feel that The Rack would work out better. You can very easily start applying damage with it by turn 3, and in a lot of scenarios by turn 2. Plus when I have gone thru proxy draws here I am not getting 5 land out until later than that in most cases. And I honestly would use Ravenous Rats when I buy this deck instead of the Corrupt Court Officials (8 dollars vs 17 cents) so I think I would end up leaving the Specters.
http://www.mtgvault.com/magiccontroller/decks/meanest-multi-discard/That is what I was talking about.It is vicious. It has beat me, in person, over 10 times. That is where I got the idea.
He empties his own hand and his opponent's hand.Now Ensnaring Bridge makes it to where you can't attack him with any of your creatures.PLUS his Guiltfeeder can still attack you! It is brutal.