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As is obvious to anyone who's been on the site for some time, MTGVault has been on a decline for a while now. They days of Northernwarlord or Dedwards getting a casual 1k views, 15 likes and 30 comments is over, and current numbers have been decreasing. Decks in hot stay there for weeks on end because no decks of significance show up soon enough. I think the reason for less decks, less active members and less support is because of itself. Negativity breeds negativity. If you see a deck that you like or is interesting, give it a like. It doesn't hurt you. If you see a positive comment or a good suggestion, upvote it. There's no reason not to. Even if someone has a question that needs answering, go ahead and give them an upvote. I haven't been the most supportive of others beyond my friend group in the past but I am going to try and change that. Nobody wants to be active on a website where you get ignored, so lets not be that website. Even if 10 people see this article and make a change, that makes the site a better place, and more people will change with it. Just as negativity breeds negativity, it goes both ways. Positivity breeds positivity, and creating a little more can make a lot more in the future. Lets be better. If you have anything to add, please add it in the comments below.
Sorry for the sermon, but I really like this site and I want to see it's future be bright.
This deck has been viewed 8,172 times.
This was a good read and I even got something out of it, I never knew truce was a card so it is going in my hug deck. that you for this gem.
Im glad I could help your hug deck. I'll check it out.
Same here, this is exactly the card missing for the deck I'm building with a friend.Wholeheartedly agree on your message as well, I'll try to give more love myself.
I like the idea of a hug deck. I'm going to make one. Thanks for the idea!
I've been intrigued by unusual decks like that in the past, I might try and make one myself.
This all hits home a lot for me. I haven't been around as long as you, but I can tell that things have declined since I first joined. I'll try to be more positive in the future, for the sake of the site.
Agreed! Really like this site ive tried mtggoldfish/ tappedout but i always seem to come back here for my deck building id hate for this place to go completly dead
Yeah, I've tried those too. Never could get into them the same way.
Thank you. We're not going anywhere! :)
I really don't use the site as much anymore and after some thought I think its for the reasons you stated. I don't post decks very often anymore and only really comment on my friends decks, so I don't know what its like to post a deck and be ignored, but I can imagine. I guess I've seen it happen and I don't want it to happen to me so I stay away from the community. I'll try and be more supportive.
no doubt!I've just found out about this site and it's very useful! Having a active community would be nice
On behalf of the vault, welcome.
Welcome to the vault, I'll check out some of your decks, maybe give some advice if I think I can help.
Welcome aboard! :)
Haha, every comment on here is upvoted so much.
Glad you're helping spread the love. :)
I think part of it all may be that the next generation of magic-players see the internet more as a ressource than a network.Why engage people when you can just use their tech?As a result most of us just write stuff and don't expect people to care. I keep a real heavy track on decks in the meta that interrests me at any period of time, so I can often see that a few top players actually read what I write, but they never engage to ask for details. Perhaps because I write too detailed ???I have also been a "memeticist" for quite a while, hanging out on imgflip, creating memes.The same "upvotes are scarce culture" is present there, but because people there take a pride in being at the top, the big players tend to be socialisers engaging newbies with the clear intent of getting upvotes.One pattern that evolves is that those who reponds with upvotes can be found by timing your writing and their reponse, so you find out who upvotes you, and you stay engaged with them. Anyone not upvoting you, you leave to fend for themselves.it soon becomes a sort of alliances-game where you work to upvote whatever those in your fanbase makes, while keeping a sharp eye out for those not upvoting your stuff.Since upvotes in here are dying, it means we've lost the social network, and need to reestablish it by finding out just who is our loyal fans...
100% agree. People want attention and they don't want to give it back. This has ALWAYS been the problem and I simply don't know how to fix it. So instead I'm going to focus on the tooling wer offer for deck builders and collectors. Keep the social stuff in there, but try and reduce its importance/value.
I must honestly say I have been using the site for years and I maybe seen 10 decks from other players. I'm really glad to have a database where I can throw all my decks in (like my deck for every modern commander-project). But that's it for me. Sometimes I wanna see what other players do with a certain commander, but thats it.Idea: I know some sites allow EDHREC to use info from them and those sites are namedropped every so often. Could be an idea to generate some new traffic?
Same here! Been using this site on and off for 10+ years now and it's brilliant! Thanks MTGVault Dev's - this site is MEGA useful for tracking our home built decks
just got this crazy idea on how to at least create a lot of small sub-communities in here.https://www.mtgvault.com/wickeddarkman/decks/use-1-tag-to-show-nationality/By first bonding nationally we gain one strong (although divided) world, then we can start engaging each other :DBut to get a strong community we have to start small, because other cultures are simply as alien as can be.Just think on how alien I am, and I just represent a small part of what is internationally known as DK (Denmark).
I noticed without some catchy name or an astablished community no1 bothers to look at your deck, and why should they stroll through a bunch of home brews?!If you want your deck to be raided, you need to comment other decks and hope they return the favor.Also tagging your decks and wringing a description helps a lot...As I really want to push modern elements (cause I'm loving this new synergy based and not lord based play style) I need to find some interesting decks to commend... oh and also find the time to do so..
So true, this is a really good point.
The main reason I don't comment, upvote or like a deck/ comment most of the time is a missing description. Like Germynator already pointed out it helps a lot if you write a deck description/ how to play section. In my opinion this is simply because it shows that you've sunken some time and work into the deck and not simply copy&pasted it from somewhere, even if you just want to showcase your deck. An honestly...why should I put time and effort into a deck and help to improve it, or at least make some suggestions that I think could be useful, when the owner doesn't even have the time to write up some basic words about his deck, the idea, and so on.
Yeah, I agree... It's hard to want to help someone out when they aren't helping themselves.
Maybe we should only allow decks to be made public if they have proper descriptions. This could help the public listed content be better, but still allow people to just store their decks privately without descriptions if they want to.
Great idea! Only allow decks that have a description to be made public. If I can't be bothered to comment on my own deck, then I can't complain that others can't be bothered either!
In my opinion, the problem isn't people not liking and commenting, it's that more people are leaving the site than there are people joining. The problem is more sites have came out that's similar to this one and has divided our numbers. The owner of the site needs to advertise the site, get a for MTGTubers to plug the site. A lot of the old users have stopped playing and the site doesn't get spread around by word of mouth as much anymore. We NEED new users.
That is exactly right in my opinion.I even started a threat in the forum section on how to improve this site so make it grow bigger.Like make it more modern looking, make it have features like sharing decklists, sorting your deck collection, or even make it possible to filter EDH/Modern/Standard on the front page. What about importing/exporting decks from Arena? - Things like that could make the vault a better tool and would bring more users for sure.They told me that they are currently focusing on making the site more mobile friendly... i think that was one or two years ago.Also not all people really want comments or unasked help on their decks, they just accidentally happen to be on the front page by creating a new deck.Why is there no section like "Help Me" where people can specifically ask for assistance with deck building?After one day your new deck gets lost in the deeps of the vault and will never be found again.Regarding Northernwarlord and others, I have to say I am glad that they have stopped spamming the vault with budget decks. I never understood what this is about. For a more competitive oriented player there is not much to gain here. High quality lists are hard to find, and often outdated. Many users have hundreds of decks that never get updated. Its very rare that there are real discussions about card choices.So i mostly use this site just for deck storage nowadays.Although i sometimes try to give positive feedback on other decks if i find a deck that is interesting to me, or i have any experience with.
I agree with most of what you said, however, I highly enjoy the budget deck techs since I consider myself a casual player for as long as I've been playing the game (10+ years).
I agree with both of you. First off whoever's in charge of this site obviously isn't/can't do enough to advertise the site. I also mostly use it for deck storage now, and I keep most of updated "high quality" decks unlisted. But, I also love the whole casual thing going on here, and I like to mess around in weird ways with decks.
I really like the idea of letting people ask for help with decks, this is what we *tried* to do with "unloved decks" but the problem is that too many people mark their decks as unloved. So you end up with this MASSIVE list of decks and still not enough people willing (or with the time) to help, so we end up with a second version of the homepage, with just as many decks not getting any love, which is a negative experience to the people trying to get, and ultimately not managing to get the help they're looking for.
I've been there since the days of old and I believe the "main page" changing from hot to new&active was a change for the worse as well, either way grade read fam. I'm not as active as I used to on here besides brewing private decks. But I do not like the community slaking off aswell.
I feel like things started to go off a little bit around then too. Not really sure how to feel about the new vault but can't say I dislike it.
I don't like new & active, I don't like hot decks and I don't like unloved decks, I think they are in fact quite negative for anybody trying and failing to get there and I don't like that. I'm thinking of switching to a format-based split for the main pages. Thoughts?
I like that, instead of searching by tags you just click on the tab of the format you want to look out sounds much better.
MTGVault has always been my first choice for deck building. The only thing I can think with the loss of users is other sites. MTGGoldfish and MTGDeckbuilders have become very popular with players in my playgroup. I even transferred most of my deck in MTGVault to MTGGoldfish for my playgroup to view. That being said, I think MTGVault needs to have a facelift, with detailed price charts, detailed card choices, (Foil Prices, Holiday, Judge, and others), and possibly a whole new look.I know I am at fault as well, every weekend I would add at least 10 comments and likes to decks. It has been over 6 months adding any comment. I have been busy with work, family life, and a person gets a little burned out once leaving a comment. Without no comments or responses. Being a part of MTGVault since 2009 the suggestion I could give is if someone leaves a comment response. Also, If someone leaves a comment on one of your decks such as a suggestion, bring up there profile look at there decks and choose one or two you think you would enjoy playing. Then, leave a comment as to what you would add, take out or even change. Give them other ideas, addition combos, protecting the deck, or what you like about the deck and so on.
Yeah, that's a great point about profiles, about the facelift thing, don't really know if the vault will listen.
Clockwork, you have a point. I have been on this site for a while now and I agree that the website needs to add another feature or something to really get players involved. I do also agree with what everyone else is saying about the declining amount of users. Although this is a long term problem that the website owners need to solve, we as users can make the best using what we have (See the last paragraph). In my experience with MTGVault I have found that players tend to view the critiques of others as a negative. It is important for people to remember that in most cases this is just friendly suggestions and that no one will make you alter your prized design (on the reverse side, keep the comments friendly and well-intended). Additionally, I can't say that over the years this site has always been full of life. Outside of select, well established, deck builders few people commented on decks outside of the occasional rarity. For most of my time here, it has been just posting decks for the amusement or benefit of the other users. I have come to learn not to rely on this site for answers to my questions and instead learned to seek them out on my own. This does not have to be the case. If we can get everyone to work together, this website can be a great deck building tool. That being said, descriptions are important no only for other people to understand you decks, but also for you to understand what you were thinking 5+ years ago when you designed that Storm Crow tribal. I like many others am guilty of the lack of descriptions. I have begun to slowly add descriptions for my decks, but like many of the veteran users I have a long list ahead of me. Overall, my advice to users would be to fully fill out all the information possible when building your deck. Properly cite original deck designs that gave you inspiration, so that their deck gets some attention as well. Comment and/or like these inspirational decks yourself. Like the decks that inspire you or those whose design you can't help but appreciate. Finally, always upvote those trying to help you. Even if you don't take their advice they took time out of their day to try and improve your design, it's the least you can do for them. Also engage with those that leave a remark about your decks, it makes people feel be better about commenting.
Until now this has been a hobby project that takes week nights and weekend days to run, that makes it REALLY hard to do big changes like redesigns and new features, BUT... BIG NEWS, as of October 1, I will have dedicated days during the week to work on the site and I intend to do just that. First, I am going to finish (yes, I started) working on a new mobile-friendly redesign and then we can start thinking about the big new features.
What about having "Hotdecks" in different categories? Such as Hotdeck EDH, Budget, Legacy, Vintage, Modern, Standard, Kitchen Table, Crazy Combos, Timmy Time, and so on?
Seems hard to definitively categorize them beyond the traditional formats already given. And even if you could, I doubt there would be enough of any one format besides modern to have a whole hot page. If this place gets more active, that sounds great though.
Exactly what I'm thinking @ClockworkCopper. Push formats first and let the user filter/sort how they please after that, be it new, active, hot, unloved (help needed), etc.
Hey Gary, long time no see since the Uni FNM days! I agree there needs to be more format separation on the site. I'm only interested in Modern (and now Pioneer which I'm looking forward to you adding btw! ;) ) so I feel my input and comments are more relevant to other modern decks. So I'm naturally going to look for decks of that format so it would be nice if this was made easier.
My biggest issue with vault is unless decks are below 50 dollars, it's just complaints about the price of the deck. It's either a budget deck or an article deck, otherwise you're not going to get the likes/comments or what have you. So yes, I do use this as simply a resource to tweak decks and theory craft edh/standard decks. There just isn't any incentive for someone like me to participate in this community, and every time I've tried just ends up with people whining about the price of the deck, even though 90% of it is the mana bases. Honesty, edh is the most casual of formats that have ever existed, unless you're going to sanctioned events with prize support, nobody should care about less than 10 proxies in an edh deck. Especially among friends. My playgroup proxies the duals that we don't have all the time, because none of us are going to buy duals for commander.And I do like and comment on decks that catch my eye, there just aren't that many.
Yeah, because it's online it's easy to not think of the card prices, but honestly, I never really plan on buying any of these decks, so the price doesn't matter to me either.
I mean, complaining about the what amounts to the entry cost of Modern and Legacy is fine and completely justified; But complaining about a casual format that is usually played at home amongst friends, where no one is going to care if you have a few proxies, is asinine.
This one caught my eye. When you say "there just isn't any incentive for someone like me to participate in this community", what do you mean? What sort of "incentive" do you normally look for to participate in a community? I would absolutely love to fix this, I just don't know how yet.
It's nothing to do with the site itself, I enjoy all the tools you offer, particularly your search engine. The mechanics of the site itself is great. It's other users unwillingness to reciprocate advice/comments/likes, which is what I mean by no incentive. Why offer advice only to be ignored; And honestly that has nothing to do with the site and there is nothing you could really do in order to get people talking to each other. It's all in the attitudes of the users. The only thing I could think of to help that is to make showing the price an option for users, but looking up card prices is super easy these days so it likely wouldn't actually change anything.On a brighter note, keep up the good work. Like I said, I enjoy pretty much everything else about the site. The layout, the search engine and the profile pages to see what decks I have saved. The one thing I would change (which is an incredibly minor thing) about it is whenever you go back to an old deck to change/add cards you have to manually click on the add card button every time to add/change cards. I would personally like to see the add card function to just always be there for ease of use, this would save a minuscule amount of time on my end. Again, this is incredibly minor and is very easy to live with and I have no idea how hard that would be to change from a coding perspective.
Yeah, I really agree with couch here. The site itself is great, but it's the average user who needs to do better. Tylowrath's idea was that if we get maybe 10 people out there to be more supportive, more people would feel like they should be supportive as well and that would affect the greater site.
Ah, great thank you for the explanation! I will keep the add card button thing in mind when I get there on the redesign. :)
No problem man, thanks for all the work you put in.
Yeah I resonate with a lot of what people are saying regarding this post. In terms of adding a description/how to play guide to one's deck, I honestly don't think it makes that much of a difference in terms of comments or likes. Of all the decks I've made public on this site, some had no description while others had an essay practically and the essay decks some of them got no likes and no comments. One observation I have noticed is that infinite combo decks or combo decks in general tend to have way more views or activity than other archetypes. I can understand everyone is looking for the best new card synergies and crazy "oops I win" kind of cards, but just because a deck doesn't go infinite or have some insane mechanic doesn't make it a bad or uninteresting deck. I also think the attention span of society in general has gone way down, so people don't have the patience to filter through dozens of posts and comment on them all. But yeah I think having a somewhat catchy title will help a lot with getting noticed. I need to work on that. A title such as "Omnath Landfall" doesn't exactly jump off the page. Those are my main thoughts on this subject. Anyway, I don't really care anymore who or if anyone comments or likes my decks. I mainly just use this site for play-testing purposes and deck ideas.
Yep, people can complain all the want about this or that but in reality they're just too lazy to be friendly and like a deck or help a builder out. This website is dying simply because no one wants to participate anymore.
Absolutely. We've seen it over and over again. People want feedback/attention of their decks but are unwilling to provide that feedback/attention to others. This is ultimately the fault of the tool we've built here and I will be looking to fix that over the coming months.
Is there a budget version of this deck?
yes im replying to myself lol.. I actually left this website about 4 years ago. i thought for sure that it would be long dead by now. I was so frustrated with the site that i myself became quite toxic towards the "popular" decks, which mainly consisted of super budget 1 trick pony combo decks. It was impossible to get feedback on anything that didnt fall into that category. Even now just looking around, its full of EDH lists with 100 cards and no descriptions on anything. But anyways, im back again i guess and il do what i can to try and boost other decks i find interesting without being a toxic bastard in the process. Nice post @Tylowrath
I try to make mine funny or at least have a description of why I chose the cards I did. :)
How come this went up on the 8th and I am only seeing it now? xD
Who knows how the vault does it? I might do some research into the site and talk about that on another article deck.
Ok, another question, how have you managed to rouse people like this? My comment is as boring as communist architecture and yet I got 4 upvotes somehow.
Me, QuackQuackMeow and WiseOctopus are all Tylowrath's friends and we all like and comment on each other's decks when we remember. We all agreed to like every comment on here. All the other likes on others are just happy people.
We tried to make the site work like Reddit, requiring a combination upvotes and comments to get to the magical homepage. I feel like this has given everybody a false sense of "Oh, I'll post my deck, get to the homepage and get feedback", but unfortunately, for most people, that simply doesn't happen because, well... we're not Reddit!
Yep, but there isn't much that can be done about that I don't think. This site allows for most interaction with the easiest access to interaction, the facilitation was implemented masterfully. It's just that... well, this ain't Reddit. The population is low, the incentive to engage is low, and the quality of the average deck is also low (I was a massive part of that last problem a couple years back). But I'll stick with this sinking ship until the servers die or the Soviet Union rises again.
I'll admit I'm guilty of not getting comments or votes and then not wanting to post as much. It's a little disheartening to see some of my decks viewed hundreds if not thousands of times and not be worth a click on a like button. Sometimes I work pretty hard on making the description funny or go into excessive detail on choices I have made when I update my decks. Sometimes I don't bother because I doubt anyone is reading. I mostly use this site to keep track of changes to my decks for my own use because I hate the format of other similar sites. Which is a shame, because the first modern deck I fell in love with (turbo fog) I found on here. I know we have had this discussion before and I don't want to see the site fail either, so I'll redouble my efforts. :)
I absolutely built the site originally to do just that, keep track of my decks and allow me to share lists with people. The idea of getting other people to help build was well intentioned, but ultimately failed because there are so many more decks being made every day than there are people willing to comment/help on them. I don't like the negative impact this has on people. I totally understand that it can be disheartening when you post a get and get no feedback, but I don't believe there is an easy fix for that, instead we need to make the tools better and not have people wanting/needing this magical feedback that will, more than likely, never come.
Thanks very much for posting this. I'm Gary, I built and own mtgvault and when I see decks like this, it gives me a small glimmer of hope and inspiration going forwards. I loved reading through this thread, learning thoughts on what is good, what is bad and what it totally broken and NEEDS to be fixed.I know that I have neglected this place in the last few years and I'm sorry for that, life (and lack of spare time) has a way of... getting in the way of hobby projects like this and ultimately the site suffers as a result, BUT... I have good news!I have renegotiated my work contract, and starting October 1, I I will have dedicated days every week to work on this site and our Vault X gaming supplies & accesories business. Changes are coming, a redesign is coming, mobile-friendly is coming. I want to get rid of that negative feeling of posting a deck and not having anybody reply, honestly I'm not entirely sure how to do that yet, but I think that focusing on the tools available to deck builders and collectors alike and not making people feel like they need to get to the homepage would be a good place to start.
Wow, I can't believe this got to the site owner! I just saw a homepage one day with zero total comments and no more than 1 like per deck and I made this kind of as a rant. I really like your idea to make it like Reddit, and as far as forums go I think their system is #1. I'm glad to hear that you have more time now to work on things and I know that "making all decks get attention" is a huge task that I'm not sure how to fix either. I really hope this place can thrive.
GARY: If people needs incentives to upvote other peoples pages, how about adding a block on the "create new deck" feature until the user of the account have upvoted 5, 10 or 20 of other peoples decks? Reward the behavior you want by limiting the options available to those not behaving like you want. Such pavlov! so force!
Hmm, not the "create new deck" option as I always want people to be able to use the site/tools for themselves for free, BUT... maybe the "make this deck public" or "ask for help (unloved)" features could be exchanged for "good guy internet points". Interesting idea.
You definitely don't owe anybody anything. I, personally, think this site is great and I try link and post when I can. But seriously it's a game, and you have a life! Enjoy this will be here!
So the conversation broke down! Did gary break it? Did we break gary? Did we think everything would be magically fixed by him and just relaxed, taking a mental break?It cannot just end like that, so re-read your last conversation and reignite your thoughts on this postGary may or may not fix this, but we have to plan for failure, as if he never visited us.This falls on everybody...
I mean, we did what we could, and there's only so much he can do as well. I'm being a lot more supportive, and me and my friends have gotten 3 decks to the hotpage since then.
I've suggested that a guideline was built for newbies to decrease people from producing too many decks, and that people upvote and comment before posting a deck so they don't bury their own work. It's in my most recent post. I've given actual solutions to gary and the community there.If my version doesn't make headlines, go ahead and hijack the parts, you agree would be useful, as long as it spreads things could improve. Awareness of the disease is always the first step
Heh, embarrassed much!I hadn't made it public...Very forgetness, flushy face Is flushing!
I didn't mean to kill the conversation - oops! :DI've seen your deck and replied on it.
Great points; love to see posts like this.
I've been thinking of another area that might need fixing.Views...When I post a deck or an article I've noticed that it gets 6-7 views while I create the deck alone. These views cannot be from real viewers because I only make my stuff public after the deck has been made.When I've finished with the descriptions as well I've usually got around 20 viewsI assume it's because the page somehow register ones own views, and knowing myself I usually errata my own posts after they are public.I also assume that when I view other peoples pages several times waiting for responses I probably add to their number of views.A lot of other people probably share some of my behaviour, so a lot of views registered are not really views.Since many of us are currently disheartened by the lack of upvotes compared to the number of views. It should be pointed out that there is such a distortion and gary might want to set some it ghoul on it.Now you know...
I've noticed that too, but hey, I'm not complaining!
True, we don't want to wear him out :)
No! I think this is a very valid observation! Seeing that my deck has 15+ views and no likes or comments adds to that feeling that no one really cares what you have said or even acknowledged the time and effort you've put into creating a deck WITH a description. Knowing that your own views are up-ticking the view count is very relevant in ones own perception of this community. I agree this needs fixing as not everyone is going to read this decks comments! TL;DR as I'm told on other sites!
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You probably didn't notice because you didn't need to notice.It's like that basketball study where people are asked to count the number of faults in a basketball video, while the real study is to see how many people notices a guy in a gorilla costume crossing the view. Your mind focus on tasks it deems necessary.Being asperger my mind focus on patterns "normal" people don't notice.I once worked at a hospital where they thought an automatic door was haunted because it was opening and closing constantly without reason and the mechanics guy could find no mistakes.I studied the door for half an hour and concluded that when there was a draft it would send a string swinging that is used by fork truckers to open by pulling it, and the sensors picked up on that strings swing, and when the doors opened it caused more draft, so the door would trigger the swing constantly. The department had even studied the archives to put a name on the possible ghost when I cracked it, and proved it by tying a knot on the string to lift it out of the draft.
I don't usually comment on these threads or other deck tbh, but this one peaked my interest. I like the idea of people being supportive just as you said, but I only use vault to store deck ideas I'm passionate about and I'm sure many others do to; however, I keep mine unlisted and I'm not really worried about likes. I would love to be a part of the community, but sadly a lot communication is unavailable. Sure I could comment on decks and suggest a card here or there, just, I feel like it could be a step farther. Imagine vault being more of a social media site we can pull ideas from them, such as, a live chat system (an all chat or smaller group chats), a mix between decks and forum (article decks). We could have tabs sorting formats so you can see only the decks that concern you. People will always make a quick draft of a deck and walk away, the problem is that it fills the home page.P.S. a few things I would like to see is a custom category for making commander decks such as ramp spells, draw spell, etc. I feel it'll be easier to build and view a deck versus looking at a pile of creatures, spells, and lands. Also maybe an auto tag system for if a deck meet certain theshold on subjects it gets an tag for that thingSuch as "decks under 50 dollars get a budget tag" or "decks with a high creature count is creature centric".
I really like the auto tag idea, but I imagine it would be a huge amount of work to classify every card into it's "role" in a deck. Honestly, anyone who knows reads all the cards in a decklist should be able to tell what each cards role is.
I understand it's not hard to know a role but I personally don't enjoy looking at every card, and when I'm deck building I enjoy sorting cards based on role to see what I need more of or less of.
TYLOWRATH:What each card does in a deck, is based on experience. If you know a format well, you will have the experience to guess what a card does. Once you are out of touch with a format you can only theorize. For example I play 93/94 enough to know that you use copy artifact to copy artifact creatures when you face artifact aggro, but against decks like erhnamgeddon you use it to copy moxen to survive their land destruct. Such experiences with cards will be even more obscure when the deck you look at is rogue to you, I've been using a lot of bizarre card picks in many of my own builds, and even when I put out a detailed guide on each card, I forget to describe some very rare interactions.One of my favourite examples is jorubai murk lurker which i most of the time used as a beater, sometimes for the lifegain and against merfolks I used it to kill a very specific card. A shapeshifter that dies when targeted.It belonged to the sideboard of the deck named "my experience with evolution" it's and old deck but will serve as an example.Every deck has a context based on its meta, if it's owner doesn't fully describe what each card does against each deck in the meta, then it will be impossible to guess a cards real function without recreating that meta to play against.Go ahead, try to describe what the cards in "my experience with evolution" does, some cards may seem to have obvious uses, but nothing about that deck was ever simple. I spend a lot of time memorizing each cards functions against the whole meta. I tried to teach others to play the deck just as a challenge, but they didn't get it.Most of the time when I showed someone the decklist, they would go "what's the kill", and I'd tell them "everything that deals damage" and then I'd tell that enough games get long enough for the mindshrieker to win by milling
I’m totally new to the site. I played a lot when antiquities came out and up to Ice Age. I recently started playing again and I’m very happy to see a community presence online.
great article, Tylowrath.I have always thought that the vault was a great place to design and test out deck ideas. bounce things off of other players you have built a rapport with. I do wish there was a little more community based support. groups or clans on forums, better forum integration with the rest of the site etc... the ability to message specific people. but the vault doesn't have these. new deck visibility is alright, but the user to user interactivity is terrible, making it feel like nobody sees new decks. essentially each deck has become its own mini forum, being the only way users can communicate with each other. with most being overlooked simply because they are not "meta" decks, even if they are fun or interesting.I do feel like MTGVault is a great resource for new deck builders and veterans alike, and has the potential to be even more-so, but we should try to remember that not everyone builds according to the current comp meta (like myself), nor do they care. just want to be creative and have fun, and we as a community need to be supportive of all players regardless of skill level or interest in comp.support new people, comment on new decks (politely), encourage those who feel overwhelmed. Build the community you want to see here.
Mtg vault has really expanded my horizons in magic and I really took an interest in the game mostly because of this site. Being able to build your own decks on a website for free and just mess around with fun little cards, see how they can work together? That's the best part. There's a lot of things I can do here and I hope that it stays that way. It made things way easier for me to learn. And being able to get to know some of the best deck builders in the world was really cool. But that all seems to be going away.??If you really do care even a little bit about this site or just magic the gathering at all. Be sure to leave a like and upvote comments like he said in the description. It would really help. I like to think of myself as a decent deck builder and I've had a few decks in hot before. I know some people aren't as good as others. But if you leave a like on their decks, even if it's not good, I really think that could boost their confidence and they'd start to build more and we'd get more people just playing magic itself.
I couldn't agree more.
Looking at all the comments is so cool that so many people still care. I'm not active anymore just because i feel that any advice i can give is restricted by how expensive the game is and by the context of the adecks being used.Also i brew far less than i used to. I basically remake the decks that i like for each other standard every time a deck fully rotates, i don't really innovate so i don't post lists. I'm actually using vault again due to a podcast with maro where he said "If you want to play older formats, just go play them, no products are aimed at you"Basically saying "Just proxy if you want to play older formats" The proxy button on this site is great so that's why i like vault.
Yeah, the proxy button on this site is really great.
no doubt, the proxy button made everything easier... and just as an alternative to buy overpriced cards but to run a deck before buying it, even if it's not that expensive
Supportive was a thing back in 2018But trolls have been haunting the place.Upvoting random pages and copy pasting decks releasing 20-40 a time to cover decks they dislike.
Commenting again so people can see this, I think it's needed.
Agreed. A lot of toxicity going around lately.