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This deck is really fun when played correctly. There are very few decks that can consistently stand up to it and even then the deck can fight them. Right now it is constantly changing, as should any good deck, to play around the decks that join my playgroup. If there are some cards that just don't work for your play group, keep a lookout, or read the comments. Plenty of cards have been suggested and the deck is still switched around from time to time.
The main damage dealers are The Rack and Shrieking Affliction. Your goal is to get those triggers. There are plenty of discards spells in the deck and getting to the point where both you and your opponent are top decking is pretty much the goal. There are a few lockout's in the deck. The best is Ensnaring Bridge with Raven's Crime and Dakmore Salvage to hit a discard every time while keeping cards out of hand. There are a few straight up kill spells to deal with pesky creatures that were dropped early game, and the rest is just constantly keeping things out of their hand. Keep in mind that you have 8 rack effects in the deck. (hence the name 8 rack) You need at least a couple on the field to actually do damage.
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Too much spot removal. The idea should be to "kill" all the creatures before they even make it into play with Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize, then use Drown in Sorrow and Damnation to mop up against the few who do make it into play.
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That isn't actually true, as a 8-rack player there are a lot of creatures you actually just don't care about.Its more or less about crippling the early game, you mess their curve up(obviously the plan changes vs combo.)once you stablize with Lilly/raven's crime/ensnaring bridger you just lock them out in rack pain range.That being said he is running far to few lands( I assume this is a budget build.Wrench mind>mind rot.IoK>Duresstry to have around 22 land.4 manlands (personal prefence between mutavault and blinkmoth nexus)1-2 dakmor salvages(soft lock with raven's crime)2-4 Urborg ( lets you hit 2 black if you plan a muta turn 1 or 2. also dropped in price recently, I got mine at 30$ each...)2 more lilly3-4 more ensnaring bridge.I like to have 1 slaughter pact.3 removal spells main deck is more than enough.your worst match ups are:AffinityR/G TronBogglesInfect.Blue based decks are all a breeze.Same with combo.Pod is 50/50(sideboard dependant.)4x surgical extraction in the sideboard ends a lot of decks as early as turn 1.
I agree with VintageFTW here, Instead of having all this extra removal. You should be running these, at the least.4 Inquisition Of Kozilek4 Liliana of the Veil4 Wrench Mind4 Smallpox.Things to cut would be Mindrot, Duress, I'd say 2-3 of the Raven's Crime. Majority of the removal isn't needed. Damnation is better then any removal in this kind of deck. Also, Ensnaring Bridge is what you would want to deal with creatures anyways. Why care about killing them if they can't even attack.More lands should be used also. 4 Mutavaults with 1-2 Urborg are good with about 17 swamps included.
Never, ever cut raven's crime. You have no idea how much of a powerhouse this card is. Raven's crime is a staple at 4x.Bridge is great 4 of but you don't want to only rely on it... I use 3x pack rat in place of waste not and bitterblossum in other builds.
I don't deny it's power, I use to run it in Legacy. I just don't think 4 Raven's is the right number. Especially with other more powerful discard/disruption, like Smallpox which counts both as Removal and Hand Disruption. But I have seen Pack Rat in some lists go nicely, same with Tombstalker and Nyxathid (I believe that is how it is spelt) if creatures are what you want. But if you do go creature idea then Smallpox is less valuable.
Smallpox would only maybe be better if youre running waste not as the interaction is beneficial.Raven's crime/dakmor+ Bridge gives you a second soft lock in the deck.It's more or less the fact it can just cripple the opponents hand early.It also makes hands like:1cmc , 4-5 lands raven's crime, misc. keepable.Being able to go:t1- 1cmc discardt2- double crimet3- third crime/etcI feel if we are removing cards it would more or less be the 2 cmc utility cardsremoval packagesland baseWhile I feel this is pretty core to the deck:4xInquisition of Kozilek4xRaven's Crime4xThoughtseize4xLiliana of the Veil3-4xEnsnaring Bridge(depending on the utility cards you're using) waste not/smallpox 3 should be fine, 2 if using a G/B rack loam build.4xThe Rack4xShrieking AfflictionI really wish they would print/reprint a better 2cmc 2 card discard spell than wrench mind, its just super awkward vs affinity and tron. I mean blue tron is a pretty easy match up, but R/G tron is hands down the worst for us.
you can get urborg for $10 from m15!!! i think slaughterpact is needed, its great vs combo....
@Viagrasaurus: Watch this video and tell me that the match isn't leaning towards Pod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAwIKB_RbU8&feature=player_detailpage - This isn't the only example game but I would say for sure the favor is on Pod's side in this matchup.Also to add to the discussion of Raven's Crime, if your opponent tries to get smart and hold back land cards then Inquisition and Thoughtseize are dead while Raven's Crime is still very much alive because it can knock lands out. Blackmail is another option, but it's obviously much more powerful in the late game.
Depends on the pod, really. We can combat any pod, but it's really just a race against their combo. Kiki-Pod needs to get really, really fancy with their eternal witness/Quasali Pridemage to do any good with their angels. Otherwise it's just a matter of extracting their murderous redcap, pretty easy since they're so willing to stick it in a graveyard. I'd give them the favor at 65%, but we are certainly capable of racing it.
Depends on the player more than the pod. I've eaten inexperienced pod players alive with my Restore Balance deck and I've played many others that were more skilled that knew how to play against it. The simple fact is that the current 8-rack design cannot change what your opponent will draw for their turn, and pod is a deck with nothing but topdecks. They have maindeck disruption such as Quasil Pridemage and other builds have now started running Reclamation Sage. And in the board they have Obstinate Baloth, which wrecks this strategy. They also have good answers for discard, such as flashing in a Restoration Angel, and in the end Kitchen Finks certainly helps in the out-tempoing factor. A huge amount of this has to do with how each player uses their cards, but I'd give Pod at least a 70/30 in the main and 75/25 post-board, simply because the monoblack sideboard is ineffective at fully hating on a deck that has 3-4 color options and because the pod has many answers for this deck design, main deck and post-board.
Thanks for the suggestions. I've looked around at it, and made some changes. I noticed some of you didn't like waste not, but it's actually a very good cycle card to get some value out of my opponents' discards. As for ensnaring bridge, I have three friends who run Splinter Twin decks. I'f I ever get stuck with one dead card in hand, I'm done for. I prefer to just quickly remove the creature before it can be enchanted. The other big problem with my group is Soul Sisters. Spot removal, again, takes care of it. So I'm a big fan. But I like the better discard spells and I think I've made the deck quite a bit better. Also, 22 lands is just too much. My mana curve is mainly around 1-2. After 4 lands I can play anything in my deck. Nothing hurts more to 8 rack than getting mana flooded without a Raven's Crime in the graveyard. I'll play around with the land count, but I don't think I'll ever put it above 20.
A great card vs splinter twin is:Illness in the rank, stops the combo dead for 1 mana.(sideboard tech)The thing is with waste not is not that its a bad card, it just competes with a few other cards that can be in the deck.this slot is the slow that is completely open for change and a lot of people play different cards.Bitter blossom- Great card, endless chumps. Pain is the downfallWaste not- Explosive early game potential. Terrible late game draw.Pack rat- late game power house and takes some wieght off bridge in creature based match ups(also turns all dead late game draws into a rat for sweet sweet damages)Bob- Good card. downfall is pain, also playing creatures main deck leads to them leaving in burn spells/removal post board.These aren't even all the options, I personally prefer pack rat and blossom.Honestly twin is the one of the easier match ups, I have only lost to it once or twice. you just have to board in surgical extraction. T1 discard into surgical on twin is gg. Even if you discard a pestermite and exarch extract those and they will have a bad time.22 lands isn't too much... I religiously play the deck and I know that 22 lands is perfect, granted I play 4x mutavault.I have never had a problem with mana flood, I mean thats why I play pack rat and raven's crime...
Smallpox is also bad because you removed waste not, I mean its fine with waste not, but without it and only having 20 lands its just too taxing.
I looked at this before I played yesterday and brought my cards with for switching around. After playing with the deck a bit, I agree that Pack Rat is a solid mid range to late game. Many times did it get targeted, and made a copy of itself. Bitter blossom I never liked. Not enough bang for your buck. Waste not left because I found it actually counteracting my ensnaring bridge quite often and allowed me to be attacked. This is the latest version I moved to yesterday. I've gone to 21 lands, and it worked pretty well.
Also the biggest problem I have with my friends Splinter Twin deck is he main boards two God of the Forge. Even with Illness of the ranks, Pestermite still enters and swings 2. Then I still have the problem of staring down a red indestructible enchantment that I can't deal with. Suggestions?
Yeah the plus side to pack rat is insane.+Dodges single target removal(isn't the end if it waste two removal spells in a turn as its two less cards in their hand:P)+Can attack under bridge and be pumped by mutavault/new copy post attack+even with bridge in play building a army of rats behind your wall will stop the opponent from wanting to nuke the bridge.+it forces the opponent to keep in removal post board thats dead vs 90% of your deck.+no draw is a dead drawThe only real downside is its awkward in the combo match up, but luckily thats not a hard match up lol.
Well I mean, you should be boarding in surgical extractions vs twin as it is a combo deck.They don't really run many creatures so if he is playing purph he is just making his deck worse.its also a 4cmc spell so it should be easy to force him to discard it.Vs twin the cards you are to focus with discard the most are:Twin>exarch/pestermite>Cryptic(bounces bridge)I feel if they play more 4 drops in a twin deck it would only make our job easier?
Actually, it's a very odd spin on the twin deck. He runs the combo pieces, a couple kiki's for back up. 2 Phurp for foggy decks because that is very relevant and annoying. And then draw and counter spells. He doesn't win as quickly as most splinter decks do, but he sure as hell controls the field. Also, I've seen his Phurp help him to stabilize vs. a soul sisters deck. 3 soul sisters = 3 life per pester. Pester + Purph = 4 damage per pester.
So sorta a midrange twin? I really don't know what to tell you, I mean our deck is made to beat blue decks, hell UWR midrange is a breeze.I only run 2-3 removal spells main deck, 2 victims and 1 slaughter pact(sometimes no pact)
The soul sisters I have no problems with. I usually Thoughtsieze the Auriok champions out early and even then Black Sun is a good answer. The rest can be daily dealt with using spot removal. I did see a new standard deck yesterday. But it didn't stand too much of a chance. It was really clunky Selesnya deck that ran stuff like Fleecemane, Call of the Conclave, Advent of the Wurm, etc. Only problem I had was the playlet of Voice of Resurgence, but that quickly became target of the force discards.
You prefer victim over go for the throat? I find myself looking at vampires more than artifacts.
You prefer Victim over Go for the Throat? I find myself staring down Vampires and Zombies a lot more than I do artifacts. Also, what are some good cards to sideboard against mirror decks? Hasn't happened yet. But I know a lot of people in the group like my deck and will soon attempt to copy.
its not that I don't see vampires, its just that the artifacts are scarier.I prefer drown in sorrow better than BSZ, I find it more relevant early for its mana cost and the scry is huge.Obviously late game BSZ is better though.Well leyline of sanctity is really good in the mirror, beside that it's normally a race. Focus your discard on racks, this match up is super rare and I wouldn't worry about adding sideboard hate.Yeah soul sisters is super simple game one(baring a nut draw lol) and game 2-3 they normally only run 1-2 disenchants sideboard with stony silence(which is dead to us lol) as artifact hate so even post board its not that bad.I run 4x darkblast in the board.4x surgical3x torpor orb4x leyline of sanctity( have a lot of burn in my meta lol)
Santicity becomes dead if not in opening hand though. That's what annoy's me about it. Can I ask why Torpor? I don't have much trouble with ETB effects.
And drown in sorrow isn't gone, just got moved to side. I like the black sun because it is a consistent -1-1 and will come back around to see another play through.
I just have a lot of pod in my meta, the pod match up is about 50/50 I was using graf diggers cage before but I like torpor orb in a few other match ups.Honestly, Leyline isn't bad because the match ups where I bring it in it just wins games. Burn, ad naus and storm just cant beat it. I will mull to 6 just to get it, we have a 44% chance of having 1 leyline in our opening hand and I just discard the oness i draw to lilly.
Good sideboard cards:Extra Ensnaring Bridge and LillianaSmallpox (not Victim of Night, ew)Nihil Spellbomb (to mess with graveyard-based decks like Living End)Surgical Extraction or ExtirpateBlackmailGood maindeck cards:Dark Confidant - not only does nothing cost more than four, you are literally trading card-for-card against every other deck, so Bob is definitely a powerhouseBad maindeck cards:Black Sun's Zenith? Really? A very clunky removal spell, and at sorcery speed, too. Go for the Throat - good in general, but really sub-par against Affinity. Might want to choose Smother over it.Hero's Downfall - Dismember may be better here, unless you're with a group that sees a lot of Planeswalkers
I don't see why you hate victim of night... I mean there's no creature that we are scared of that it doesn't hit...pox is fine, but its by no means the all in best removal card ever...Spell bomb isn't needed if you have 4x extraction. most of the time vs living end(super easy match up) you just discard living end(or the tutors) and extract it. After that they are on a beat down plan with overcosted vanilla.Bob(Dark Confidant) Is amazing in the deck, I would run him over pack rat/waste not/bitterblossom anyday. The only thing is I have 0 and he costs a lot of money. Great card.
Not a huge fan of the Confidant. Creature removal is a huge part of almost every deck my group plays in. I don't rely on the bridge or Lili, plus I am kind of on a budget and only own two of each. I've found that smallpox is little value and often hurts my deck more than I get value from it. I do need the Downfall because I stare at planeswalkers way to often to not main board a couple. I like dismember. The Sun's were pushed to side and dismember added in. Smother was also added but Throat boarded over heavy cost decks. Thinking about shuffling if I see an affinity deck show up. Until then will also put two Victims in as replacements.
pack rat can spiral out of control in this deck very easily, especially with the mutavaults and you making your opponents discard their removal
Did see something new as well yesterday. It was a pretty mean and fast White Weenies that main boarded silence. Very annoying card if Planning on hitting them with a discard spell and silenced on upkeep. Bought him quite a few turns to beat me down. In the end, I managed to stabilize almost every time though.
All he was doing was slowing down his gameplan.that 1 mana could have been another creature, or an aether vial. Huge tempo lose on his part because you aren't losing cards over it.
Believe it or not. It did work. I watched the deck play multiple times last night and wether he used it on his turn to either draw out the counter spell or on their turn to prevent baddies from dropping, he knew when to play it well. My only hope was hoping to have spot removal in hand to instant speed kill the big bad creature that was going to swing in the face, and that was me hoping he didn't have brave the elements or god's willing in hand since Silence is a one drop.
Well I mean if you're a good player you will know which turns you will be wanting to cast it when facing certain decks.I prefer mana tithe over silence in the main deck of mono white, leads to bigger blow outs. than you just side it out game two and they will still play around it haha.
I am on the lookout for a couple more bridges. I only own two but would love to have a play set. Would make the deck's core a bit stronger. I don't think I'm a fan of more lili's. Two more bridges would already pump the curve up quite a bit considering I'd have to take out one or two drops for it. two more 3 drops I can deal with, but four more is just insane.
thats why i play 22 lands 4 lilly is well worth the cost. I don't have a single card that costs more than 3.8 cards at 3 cmc everything else is 1-2cmc.
I've been thinking about ditching Damnation, but I think It's a very solid 4 drop. I think it is on it's way out however.
It's great vs affinity and other aggro decks, just super awkward in most other match ups, and the matches we want it, drown in sorrow kills 90% of the creatures. All the bigger creatures cant attack through bridge.
One hidden trick with bridge is targeting yourself with discard to make it so aggro decks cant attack:PI dont recommend it if you dont need to but it works.I forced a guy playing merfolk to dismember his own lord just so he could attack haha.
I think I'm just gonna spend the money today and buy the two other ensuring and Lili's and test it out. Still not a huge fan of BoB. He is just too easy to remove before I get an activation out of him. Pack rat helps me keep my hand soft locked and is an answer for dead draws. Plus in his own little way, he is evasive.
Bob isn't needed, I don't run him and still haven't done worse than 3-1 at my local game store.He's good, just not really needed.
Again, another reason I like Pack Rat. Instead of wasting a spell on myself. I'll make a rat out of it.
Keep liking the deck guys! Thank you for helping to hit front page! Still open to suggestions of course!
You're already on it lol.
Lol right as I commented I looked, saw it on there, then edited the comment.
Hah, that's a coincidence, seems like everyone is in a discard deck mood lately. I just made a budget-ish multiplayer oriented discard deck that runs pretty smoothly! :-) http://www.mtgvault.com/spiffmeister/decks/v-multiplayer-discard-fun/sample-hand/
Keep in mind, this deck is made for competitive play and runs 1 v 1. It MIGHT run in multiplayer, but would become a target very quickly and just doesn't have the power to stand to two agro decks. You'd be hiding behind the bridge quite a bit.
Well you'd think it's made for competitive play with a budget like that, wouldn't you? :-)
I'm just saying, if you playa lot of multiplayer, this deck isn't for you. Would quite often become a quick target and done in.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, quite the contrary :-) I play multiplayer almost exclusively so I know what I'm in for :-)
The two things that bare the most hate in magic are: Land destructionDiscardIf you play discard in a multiplayer format, you wont have friends for long lol.
Viagrasaurusrex lets be honest, we both play discard magic in 1v1 play. Plus my Kiki-Jiki french EDH has quite a lot of land destruction. We don't have many friends.
just go black red lnad destruction/discard balls deep, no friends
I don't know what you're talking about, I swear my other modern deck isn't turbo fog haha:P.Yeah nobody has fun in top deck mode when theyre playing a combo deck;)
My Pauper deck gets a lot of hate…http://www.mtgvault.com/ajanibeastmode/decks/pauper-foggy-mill/
http://www.mtgvault.com/viagrasaurusrex/decks/nonbudget-modern-fog/ the meddling mages change into different cards a lot, I just got tired of changing it:P
Infect, extortion and prison don't make you very popular either. They make you a very valuable ally in non-free-for-all multiplayer matches though :-) I don't mind playing them. It makes my group grateful when I'm not using one of these decks but a hydra deck attacking for over 100 trample damage on turn 5 or something like that ^^I play these decks as well, especially the second one causes an exponential wave of curses and swear words to be uttered from my poor opponents :p Also, they're ridiculously cheap. http://www.mtgvault.com/spiffmeister/decks/m-multiplayer-lifedrain-2/http://www.mtgvault.com/spiffmeister/decks/lets-not-make-friends-today/http://www.mtgvault.com/spiffmeister/decks/v-infast-2/
extortion hasn't ever bothered me, too slow and not enough competitive cards:Ptax(prision) does annoy people lolinfect, generally weaker than boggles i think:P
http://www.mtgvault.com/ajanibeastmode/decks/i-have-no-friends/This is my, just for fun, no friends deck.
Did you consider Nezumi ShortFang
I would assume the fact that it has some downfalls in modern may be bad.1-has to survive a turn2-opponent has to have no hand for it to be good3-dies to bolt(in both forms)Overall I feel the deck would suffer if anyone added non-resilent creatures to it.
I run into this deck all the time. It usually gets g1, then folds to Leyline of Sanctity g2-3. Other than 3 Pack Rats you have zero game against leyline. I don't think i've lost a match to this deck in a long long time.
This simply isn't true.not all decks run leyline in the board.Bridge, muta, rat, lilly are all game vs leyline.
My personal favorite is when people mull to 5 trying to get a leyline.
Lili does nothing, Bridge does nothing, Mutavault is very easy to kill, Pack Rat is the only hope, and even that can be stopped fairly easily if you don't let it get out of control.. This deck folds to Leyline and that's a fact. I crush this deck weekly.
My personal favorite is when my opponent just straight scoops to leyline because they aren't running the Rat. Most people actually aren't running Pack Rat, and even when they are there is still no hope. Whether i mull to 5 or not. This deck can't beat leyline.
pretty sure her +1 is still fine when sitting behind a bridge/rat. Really isn't a big problem, it used to be before i started playing rat. The games are no where near a blow out though.they must be terrible players then, I guess if you play with bad people your ego can inflate.
You also draw at least 1 card every turn. lili on her own isn't going to win you any games.
I have see people slam keep hands with leyline just because they had leyline.1landers, mana screw, etc. its really funny.
no but it stalls which is all you need.
About 90% of the time, with leyline in play, the opponent is stuck with a hand full of dead cards. Playing a lili or pack rat on t3 in the face of disruption isn't winning anything.
What deck do you play?Honestly post board if you're bringing in leyline depending what youre playing we won't run many "dead cards" assuming we have a proper sideboard.
It's also really funny when that 1 leyline wins you the game. mana screw or not, you're in a much better position than the 8-rack player who has 70% of his deck shut off. Stalling doesn't do anything when i'm drawing live, and you're drawing bricks.
its less than 70% post board, what deck do you play.
You can say whatever you want, but i play this deck every week, and never lose a match it. There's a reason for that.
what deck do you play.
You don't have anything post board either. I play Ritual Gifts, UR Storm, and Bloom Titan.
Leyline doesn't get around The Rack or Shrieking Affliction. Lili says each player discards so you still have to. In a stick, I'll make myself discard to help with ensnaring, and dig until I get a lili or Pack Rat. That Leyline slows me down sure, but it is not an end game situation by any means. Cool, you have hex proof. I'll go to zero cards in hand, drop ensnaring, top deck a Lili, and then you'll begin to discard. Plus a Pack Rat means no more dead draws, because I'll make my draw a Pack Rat. If the Leyline is the only backup plan, I don't worry.
Storm is an instant win for us leyline/extraction helps use shut off pyomancer and grapeshot leaving you only with goblin tokens which really isnt a big deal.Gifts with leyline is a problem, only if you land leyline.g1 really easy, g2/3 is a lot more of a grind.Can't say I have ever faced bloom titan, the hive mind build i assume wouldn't be a problem as it takes more to set up.but with that deck it really depends if its on the play or not.(at least from what I have seen)
Like i said, Pack Rat is the only hope, and that's if it resolves, and lives. With all your dicard shut off, your ~6 possible outs are going to have a hard time doing anything in the face of disruption. And that's if you draw them.
ajani, playing decks like storm and gifts he wont go down to less than 3 unless he is retarded.
its a game of luck guys... so there is always a chance to win. i beat turn 0 leylines with a burn deck, all i do is side out lava spike, use my burn as removal, and go creature heavy post board.
I'll give you that one. Extirpate is a bitch. Thank the gods no one locally plays that card!
Zaklax, Burn has the possibility of doing that because it runs more threats. 8rack only has Pack Rat and Vaults(most don't even run mutavault, or Rat...), plus they have to consider Bridge, so they can't go the beatdown route very easily.
That's the thing about Pack Rat, You to spot remove Pack Rat, I respond by discarding the card in my hand and making a copy of packrat. You spot one off the market and it get's replaced.
thats honestly the biggest mistake they can make, extraction effects cripple combo decks.Not only that but agaisnt most decks you can force discard see their had and force a 2-1/3-1 with extraction.I'm just saying its only a 44% chance you will hit leyline in your opening 7, it only gets worse from there.The game isn't over(at least with my build/sideboard) but from what it seems the people at your local game store don't understand how to make a proper sideboard.
I spot remove pack rat, you're tapped out, and can't do anything. People at my local stores, opt for Surgicals. Which is still a bitch, but muuuch easier to deal with. Even on the MTGS thread you don't see a lot of Extirpates being played.
If I had some Extirpate, I think I would run them over extractions. However, I think an extraction will substitute just fine until that time comes.
But trust me Alley, I've had thoughts about splashing green for natures claim. But splashing for sideboard alone doesn't seem very reasonable. I'll work around it I think.
To be fair there are like 0 storm decks and 0 bloom titan decks that run leyline on there also :P.Honestly, blue/red/white are way better splashes than green.
I'm not gonna splash to deal with one card. While annoying, the chances of having it in hand are low. Almost no deck mains it, that means game one is mine. They MIGHT get lucky and hit it turn 2 then win that match. But even then statistically, It won't be in opening hand and it'll be in grave before they can even cast it.
Blue gets you spellskite, academy ruins, EE(if really needed) hurkyl's recall etc.White gets you Path, stony silence, rest in peace, lingering souls(over pack rat) castable leylines etc.Red gets you Bolt(huge reach potential) artifact hate(soooo much) anger the gods/pyroclasm, blood moon(depending on build.)Green gives you decay, loam(depends), artifact hate.
Don't forget Maelstrom Pulse.
I'm sitting on a playset of bloodbraid and death rites just waiting for them to become unbanned. Not that it will happen anytime soon, but seriously, I'm just sitting on them.
Pulse isn't as good as you think it is in this deck.Pulse isn't even that good in the decks that play it.If you know they're playing it, its not hard to play around and it basically just is a 3 mana kill spell.
This of pulse like this:costs 3can be countered90% of the time we can't pay for mana leak if we cast it.raises the curvewould much rather just run 3 decay maindeck:P
All Bloom Titan decks are running Leyline. They weren't in the past, but we need it against the BGx resurgence. We've also been talking about how UR Storm basically needs Leyline now because Burn with Eidolon is blowing up, and that match is just absolutely terrible for Storm.Either way i didn't mean to come off like such a dick. Leyline is a bitch for this deck, but as you guys have pointed out, against a well constructed deck with a competent pilot it's def not just gg.
Like don't get me wrong leyline is a bad time for us its just not as GG for us as it is for other decks.Yeah I really don't know much about bloom titan, I just figure most combo decks can't afford the 4 slots in the main deck for leylines.I guess if burn is big in your meta I can understand that choice(its big in mine thats why i play 4x leyline.)What it comes down to is this deck is a meta choice mostly, if you slam it down in any random meta don't expect to have a good time. thats why I pilot a lot of fringe decks, I will play them randomly so its harder for people to hate out my decks.
so running 4 simian spirit guides... and turn one a blood moon game 2 against bloom titan. quickest scoop ive ever forced:)
I think my main board is solid. Depending how much Planeswalker activity I see in the new few weeks, downfall will either stay or go. If it leaves, it will be for a dismember. Now I need to perfect this sideboard of mine.
Excellent deck, sir! I've always wanted to build a discard deck, but I don't want to suck the fun out of the game for others, since a deck of this caliber would obliterate most people. Well played.
Very nice deck man. I see 8-rack being used a lot in the channel fireball tournaments that I go to, but most of the times they splash in red. Seeing mono-black with a great mix of discard with creatures is nice! +1 man!
You can make it even worse by adding Liliana's Caress or Megrim.
I've actually been debating a playset of Caress for a while. If anything I guess I would have to ditch the killspells. But I don't always get discard triggers off my opponent, due to them always dropping their top deck. Might find a way into sideboard but I don't know.
True. It would be most effective with some drawing power like Howling Mine, or Otherworld Atlas.
basically what he said, they're great early game, but they have no late game.they can take the spot of waste not and force your opponent to stock up his to avoid rack damage but if he does they are open to caress damage
Fair enough. It is a nasty deck. I'm just spitballing, here.
While most would argue Nihil Spellbomb is infinity better than Tormid's Crypt. I'm actually thinking about replacing the Spellbombs in the sideboard for Crypts. My reasons are: Crypt is a free play, Spellbomb is not. I don't particularly want the card draw off of the Spellbomb because it bogs down my Bridges. Thoughts?
I have to agree. Spellbombs are only good when they actually HAVE a graveyard, and by that time, you should already have your combo out. So you probably don't want card draw at that time (~midgame). Good choice for the crypts.
The card draw isn't a bad thing, sure it nonbos with bridge. Also say you're popping the spellbomb turn 3-4.will will most likely have 3 lands in play. if you pay 1 mana to pop and draw spell bomb that means you're still sitting on 2 mana which can cast over half your deck. it really isn't a big deal to have card in hand. You also don't just jam a bridge turn 3, you gotta make sure its safe.
I will test both a see how it goes. Have yet to see a recursion deck come around locally, but It's good to have the plan ready to go.
Graveyard hate is also good vs decks like storm and snapcaster.dec(though surgical/extirpate are normally more than enough vs them)graveyard decks in my meta are:1 Dredgevine1 living end1 some dredgevine home brew that doesn't run blue and plays some bad cards:P
Dredgevine sounds like a deck I don't want to see in my meta anytime soon. Living end doesn't scare me. any spell I have 4 turns to prepare for isn't scary to me.
Been looking at some previous deck lists for the tourney I want to enter. If these decks come back, I have a fight ahead of me.
Honestly it isn't a terrible match up post board.The deck is on the rise though, it has only gotten better since DRS was banned.
I honestly think Jund and Tron will be the biggest problems for me. It would completely depend. But those Karns make me think that downfall is just worth having.
U-tron isn't the worst around 50/50 R/G tron is almost unbeatable for us.I've never had karn cast against me, always mindslaver and wurmcoil.
I have actually never lost a game to living end with 8-Rack. It's just way too easy to set up on them, and ensnaring bridge is a blow out. If they can't get the evoke destroy target artifact guy down, it's game. I bring in extractions for that purpose alone.
no waste not?
Waste not was in the deck to begin, but I was getting burned more by the effects than the benefits. Plus Waste Not depends on them actually being forced to discard. Which means if they toss down their top deck every time, I get no triggers. Then it's a dead card. Just not quite up to stature for what this deck does.
It has 0 late game, which is what we need.It can lead to very explosive plays(if people are bad:P)
I'm testing a version of this deck with a G/B mana base with no actual main deck green spells. The sideboard contains two green spells: a four of golgari charm and a 3 of abrupt decay. The reason for this is that most decks in my meta are carrying four of sided leylines and 2-3 of chalice of the voids, both can be a blowout. Those two cards fix the problems. I'd suggest trying it out, as thus far, I have had nothing but positive feedback from my win count. Just something to consider trying out.Plus, as an added bonus, for 2-3 turns they think you're some sort of messed up Jund or the Rock, lol.Actually, here's it's list, it might be of use to you:http://www.mtgvault.com/tmw30/decks/gb-8rack/
not to mention that golgari charm kills most of the creatures from affinity
Actually, funny story about that:'Game 2''*Affinity player* keeps one lander Inkmoth, 2 Memnites, Cranial Plating, springleaf drum, Mox Opal, Master of Etherium''I have play, use thoughseize to take his Master''He plays the Inkmoth, 2 Memnites, Opal, uses opal for drum, casts cranial plating''I play Catacombs and pass turn.''He plays glimmervoid, activates inkmoth uses the opal to equip cranial to a memnite, declares combat.''I crack fetch for overgrown and Charm, mode -1/-1/'He scoops.That card is awesome.
People see cards that give -1-1 or in funeral charms case +2-1 and pass it off as bad. If you take the time to look at all the creatures in modern that have 1 toughness you quickly realise -1 or 1 damage is huge. Well post banning of DRS anyway.
Okay guys, 2 Damnations are getting tossed into sideboard. Do we ditch Drown in Sorrow, or Black Sun's Zenith?
BSZ.drown is better at 3 mana and the scry helps us set up our draws.
Good point. It'll be BSZ for now.
Also remember you can redirect the damage from "the rack" to planeswalkers.you can't do that with affliction though.
I would try and find a place for 1-2 Necrogen Mists, just as Lilianas 5-6 that's less reliant on black mana. Maybe remove an ensnaring bridge and a smother?
I've seen plenty of deck lists that run that. Opens up to getting your good spells bounced, then forced to discard them. Can cause you to run out of gas.
Some changes! Added in some Bitterblossoms. I like the fact that I can swing with my faeries while I have a card in hand during my turn. Afterwards, I'll ditch the card.
have you thought about blackmail over some of these other cards? it can hit there lands and if they only have three cards left (which is normal in this deck) you should be good.
I've thought about it, but at the end of the day, a wrench mind will hit the lands too after I target remove the things I need to ditch.
yeah, just throwing it out there, i really like this my friend played it a month or so ago, he used waste not... which is good but i didnt like it as much
Waste not is very good in a multiplayer match up where you don't plan to hide behind ensnaring bridge. Past that, it just nonbos with the bridge.
Have you thought about Cunning Lethemancer? Works into Ensnaring Bridge, and really puts the pressure on your opponent re discard.
Seems decent. Only problem is a creature, not a very decent creature at that. Once I get them Top decking, Liliana will do his ability while being more versatile and harder to target. But thanks for the suggestion.
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its all good cool deck
You guys have helped keep this deck at the top of the home page for sometime now. That's pretty cool. If any of you play discard decks, you know that generally, in discard it's just a bad idea to use it in multiplayer. I'm gonna go ahead and take this chance to give a shout out to Spiffmeister for making a deck that is similar to this one, just modified for multiplayer. If any of you enjoy playing multiplayer and really enjoy the discard mechanic, check out his deck!http://www.mtgvault.com/spiffmeister/decks/v-multiplayer-discard-fun/
Hey ManI have played hundreds of games with this deck, trying many different builds. By far the most effective is one without;- bitterblossom- waste not (i know ur not running it just saying)- any creaturesFurthermore, you should not run mutavault. It is a good idea, but blinkmoth nexus (the non infect one) is far superior in that you can attack even if you only have one card in hand with an ensnaring bridge out. if you want to attack with the vault you have to have 2 cards in hand, which makes it likely that your opponent is going to have 2/3 in hand, which is bad for your racks.Next is removal, smother is alright, but i preferred using victim of night in my tests and when you consider the things you dont hit with smother vs the things you dont hit with victim of night, its hard not to just give up entirely and play dismembers. I also like slaugher pact, at least in the side for if i come up against affinity, to hinder their turn 3 win.Lastly, Smallpox should be in there x4, it is devestating to kill a land against a 16 land burn deck that has a guide/devil on the board. Moreover, one of the worst matchups for this deck is bogles, so much so that i sideboard 2/3 geth's verdicts, having that extra sacrifice is really strong and since you play no creatures you will always hit more of them than of you, as 8 rack, you would prefer disadvantage both players than give yourself an advantage (aka. draw a card etc).Also if you agree plz upvote, i dont have enough reputation to downvote people who are saying the wrong thing and it's getting annoying.
I see where you're coming from. I've already played this deck multiple times and it does quite well. Each one of those cards has a purpose. Pack Rat is dodgy, and a back up plan incase my bridge gets kaboomed and then extracted. I like it's ability to make any "dead draw" a copy. Also, Bitterblossom is there for that 1/1 flying ping while I have 1 card in hand. The Pack Rat is there to agro for me if I lose my bridge. As far as the spot removal, in my meta, smother just works better. Plenty of the decks in my meta have Mutavaults main boarded so bump in the night is a no go for that pumped land. I'll take a look at Geth's verdict. See if it will work. Thanks for the comment.
Hey man i see what you are saying about backup plans, the problem is you don't need them xD. If your bridge dies you are dead anyway, if you really think about it, facts of life are when you're playing a black control deck your opponent is going to be able to beat past a few pack rats or 1/1 faeries with their voices of resurgence, tarmogoyfs etc. You are better off just adding more removal and discard spells, after all that is your win condition.Also for your 'dead draw thing' that is the aim of 4 mainboard raven's crime, the only dead draw in that case would be another pack rat which puts them out of the power range of your bridge!Secondly i know a lot of people really like bitterblossom, the issue is that it puts you on a clock, now i know this may sound silly, but it really does. If your opponent doesnt just flat remove it it deals you and your opponent one damage a turn, compounding for you, against the average deck you may get 2/3 turns of this, that is two turns that you have taken one and that they have had enough cards in hand to avoid the damage from rack/affliction, meanwhile when you could have done six damge with an affliction you have dealt 3 damge total with faeries (granted u have 3 on the field) and (since it hasnt been removed as it would by a midrange deck) your opponent is setting up for some fancy combo!Player's note: i just found out that vs affinity your opponent can attack with an ornithopter and then use the alternate cost on cranial plating to bypass your bridge, as a result i have added 2 mainboard slaughter pact and 2 side. Something to consider...FURTHERMORE (god i love this deck) ive noticed the extirpates sideboard and mut tell you that you CANNOT go wrong with some surgical extractions, the ability to turn 1 inquisition then extract is insane against many combo/tron decks.THX FOR READING I HOPE I HELPED
most these decks i see that are successful on MTGO run packrat, even just as a discard outlet
did you even read my comments, i explained how i have tested many versions of this deck and in my second comment i explained the disadvantage of running pack rat, just because people do it doesnt mean it is smart.
Bravo. I like this a lot. You have my +1.
Have you ever thought about adding Phyrexian Crusader? It's great for the sideboard against things that take time but are troublesome.
I've thought about it. But When I've tested, Bitterblossom and Pack Rat just do it better.
Hey! I was testing this deck out in forge, though the A.I is bad, in forge, this is an exceptionally well made deck that works as well in practice as it does in theory. A big thumbs up!
Thanks! Glad to know I could help.
Hey everyone, if you happen to still look at the comments of this deck, I have a present for you. If you want to win modern before this gets banned and you have the supplies, run this deck. It will win, and is so broken Wizards has announced they are going to ban the main piece soon. Use it while you can!http://www.mtgvault.com/ajanibeastmode/decks/too-bad-itll-be-banned-soon/
Have you tried this online or only with your playgroup?
I played this deck online, with my playgroup, and at tournaments. Lately, most decks just combo out before you have a chance to shield yourself. But it still runs okay.
"most decks just combo out before you have a chance to shield yourself" what I wanted to hear (unfortunately)...
If you hit the targeted hand hate quick enough. It'll usually stall the combo just long enough to get the shield up. This deck took a beating with Hymn being banned.
The deck is made to destroy blue...There isn't a single combo deck that should be able to beat this deck.(besides the odd time)You just need to know what to target and when to target it.Plus sideboard cards help, a lot.
Worst match ups are Jund and Affinity. Those are tough battles.
I find the worst match ups are: R/G tron(almost unwinnible), Wilted Abzan and infect.Jund is a 50/50 match up, Affinity really depends who is on the play, most aggro decks we can out race.Darkblast is a great card for the sideboard when facing affinity.Top picks for the sideboard would be:-4x Surgical extraction(almost a must)-Illness in the ranks(tokens, twin, storm)-Darkblast(affinity, infect, decks that have lots of 1 toughness.)-Some type of GY hate(you have spellbomb, relic, cage and crypt also work.)-leyline of sanctity(if you use this only do it as a 4 of, gives you a 40% chance to have one in your opening hand. Burn, storm, jund, other random combo decks.)-Spellskite(Boggles, twin, infect. would only do this is infect and boggles take up a larger than normal portion of your meta.) (boggles folds to bridge game one, infect doesn't... early game discard is key.)(also can block champion when facing affinity)-misc removal spells that fit your meta