averagenovice74

If this was 5 or 6 months ago, I would have put banishing light in, 100%. Now I'm just prepping for rotation and seeing the speed of standard without theros. But thanks! I do though like runemark, it is pretty strong off of herald.

This shell is pretty good but I do have a couple of things to point out and critique though.

I would cut Malakir cullblade. For what it's worth, it's a one on turn two which has to have something die on your side to be relevant. This is just wasted value for a slot which could be running better options. I would run rattlelclaw out of hierarch, just for safer fixing and not having to take risk throwing him in combat to get his renown trigger. And for akroan, I would exchange them for alesha, WSAD. Better body, First strike, same cmc and she has a trigger which is VERY RELEVANT to your deck style .

sry for the double post but I would love to face a elf aggro shell against what I will be running in standard------------------------------>http://www.mtgvault.com/averagenovice74/decks/erebos-controlmonoblack/

For the most part, this is going to be a big part of standard meta when everything settles out, since this is a major archetype to pick at. Like I can see an abzan elf aggro shell coming. But this is decent. It needs cuts though maybe guilder, empath and trapper(some because of mystic still being in standard)

You should definitely should run eyeblight massacre. Card is stupid busted and is so synergistic with your shell. Maybe gather the pack too.

I'm in love with this deck just because of fog lol. But the only thing that is bothering me is sphinx's tutelage at a 4x. I love the card but 4x can make the deck kind of clunky and hard to get a real fog going. Maybe 2x and add a Claustrophobia?

But loving this deck 1+

Other than what may be, the new meta to standard, I think maybe gaea's revenge for sideboard. Card is stupid busted and clocks u/b control out completely.

And Nissa is strangely missing as well. But this is the shake-up to meta it seems.

I feel like this deck is good but lacks an identity, as in what do want the deck to accomplish in general. Is it going to be aggro thopter? or that being more midrange? Or are you looking to control tempo/ priority.

I think if you go the thopter route you just want enablers that help the cause of overloading a board, like pia and kiran, a play set of rogues and engineer plus gearcrafters are all good thopter enablers. Disciple as good as she is, is very clunky without having the deck built around her(play tested her) and you can find better, more smoother fits to whatever identity you choose.

The second is land count, 24 is the number to aim for, especially if your curve is over 4 cmc in multiples. Maybe running one copy of descent is ok, since it is a big win-con if resolved, but 4 isn't good, which hence can go to lands.

so here is a mini example of:

4x whirler rogue
4x thopter engineer
3x pia and kalan(legendary rule for not running 4x)
4x hangarback walker

this with spy network will probably make your deck pretty thopter-esp.

Hey, I like this deck! 1+.....could you check mine? It's a variant on storm with a jeskai shell. I think there is something missing.

http://www.mtgvault.com/averagenovice74/decks/jeskai-stormmodern/-------------------------->critque welcome

I just don't know about this deck shell in a mirror control match up where if they run esper dragons or some other variant where silkwrap. pacifism and devouring light are essentially not good cards and nothing to board except negate and jace's. Being that card advantage and cost effectiveness is key to winning mirror matches , that is where scorn WILL shine because a counterspell to stop a cantrip? and raw draw spell? dig through? plus having creatures that when resolved are staying(hexproof) there until you wrath, which is not helpful when behind or not having card advantage. That is why I feel thoughtseize is this deck biggest's fear since you run most of your core post-resolve removal at sorcery speed, it's not about taking it but more about knowing you have it and planning accordingly.

I think with the dilemma with silkwrap is that it's just kinda slow and can be punished accordingly like said above(with whisperwood, den protec/ deathmist combo) Plus being a sorcery speed doesn't allow you to exile at their turn, hence allowing them to plan accordingly and pulling a draw.

Nullify is just underrated. Narrow but still effective. Scorn with a dragon is still tops because it's a flat counter for two that at worse can be a force spike.

Hmm...I see your point and totally miss that banishing light.........well other than thoughtseize or maybe a turn three ashiok(if she is still relevant in u/b). The sorcery speed is kind of scaring me still, But still that is a meta contingent.

What would you peg G/w devotion or bant with this tech in terms of difficulty be for this deck? (typical elvish-to courser-to-surrak stuff) But I like this shell alot nonetheless.

This is very impressive deck shell and I love how it's so out of the range of everything for maybe a early thoughtseize/duress (what doesn't though). The only thing that is grabbing my attention is having a match up against u/b control who sides out creatures for thoughtseize and more noncreature wincon (PW's) Being that you have 4 counters and two on the side, gives you 6 outs to take out a noncreature wincon. A bit risky for me. But other than that, I love the deck! 1+

I would love to play against this actually since especially with the bant deck I just brewed-------------------------> http://www.mtgvault.com/averagenovice74/decks/ojutai-bant-permission-kill/

I agree with gothy on this, this doesn't strike me as a contol deck for the simple fact it lacks the fundamentals of a control shell (draw-go or tap out) It's like a midrange-aggro with pre-post resolve spells. I like it but it doesn't have a identity though. The omenspeaker is a card I really like and could be a focal point with a decent engine to kick/mill cards out. Ideas for this is like

Jeskai Ascendancy(Turn 1>land>turn 2 omenspeaker, scry 2(do whatever)>turn 3 ascendancy>turn 4 spell----------------------> and the engine is started. Outpost siege or maybe for a engine of sorts.

hmm...just coming back to this and seeing the changes......I like nullify, which in some case could be excellent but is only a sub for the silumgar scorn which counters flat out anything. I really would just add DL Ojutai for the charms and replace the nulls for scorn's to make them effective. If needed you can cut the lightning stikes (I say this because 3 is a odd number for to kill anything at ) to 2 and keep 2 charms for tempo/+1 trickery.

I think ojutai's command is one of those cards that if pulled out on their tapped out play is a blowout but for 4 for counter and draw/lifegain? *tilts head* idk. Cruise is a great card and I agree with in exchange for ingenuity. Now with roast .........roast is a weird card to judge because it IS red's best and pure spot removal atm but with a scary conditional that deters it from shining though. I think you side it but will be heavily sided against anything other than control decks and bant.

It's a tricky thing because most in what I seen are going to play silumgar knowing they are ready to play for the win and have already tried to grind you out(thoughtseized your hand for countermagic) So thinking in reverse, I think playing ojutai is a good bet because of the simple fact of pulling a valorous stance on him to save yourself a turn is a better option than throwing a sweeper in the wind and them having a haven up. Maybe aethersprouts due to wide bounce(?) but its not a permanent solution ,unfortunately.

I think, what is better in a case, is getting more pressure so they WON'T attack with silumgar is a better option and will allow you to play secure at ease with ojutai and some type of protection, if it fails you can just draw, sweep,and try to counter out. I've been trying to figure out how to efficiently plug silumgar too. :(

I like this deck alot except for the secure the wastes and running 3 vaults. The secure, to me, is just a big target due to the fact that so many things in the meta can make it a dead card. DL Atarka hitting the board, Virulent Plague resolving on turn 3, Bile Blight, and "hard to kill" silumgar D.D and other things that make it too much of a risk to play even if you win the resolve battle to possibly lose them on their go around.

The idea of running 3x vaults is a bit much for me, maybe 1 or 2 if you're facing tokens or G/W. or a really grindy matchup but more spot removal(speaking in terms of theme) like stoke the flames or valorous stance to allow for better, more efficient options and not raise the chances of getting baited into use precious 5 mana to sweep on what may not be their "real play".

Other than that, I like this deck idea a lot though!

I like this but the idea of using murderous as your only removal plus relying on palace as a way of keeping the board stable is very risky. I would put in ultimate price for precision removal and crux for large sweeps. Then you can have the option of playing both options for palace siege. I kind of would lean towards putting despise in there too for the simple fact at (1B) to disrupt an early creature play and boosting shriek/ palace effectiveness along the way.

But cool deck!

Yeah thanks because I played myself against a red wins style deck(rabble, dragon fodder with obelisk pump) and I couldn't find the answers until I found my end hos. The exemplars are interesting because I feel that it make hero's downfall almost a risk just because of a pop spell into exile for the turn. I think their are better options maybe like ojutai with hexproof but I like the fact of lifelink or locking down a big. Hmm.

Yeah I wasn't sure on the burn aspect as to if strikes vs roast vs stokes. I figured Roast because of rhinos and other abzan/ any other volume pumps along the way. But I see your point that being sorcery speed kills the card a little. I have the negates like in numbers because I'm basing it off oh my local meta, which is u/b control and Sultai control.

The wild slash, for me is board because there isn't to many things I would want to kill at 2 except rabble, elfish mystic, maybe a den protect and rattle. Everything else can get wrath maybe. Twin bolt? idk

And I absolutely agree with the flooded strands and temples and will do. And thanks again, appreciate your input!