thekraken

The problem I've found with the blue heroic creatures is they are all a minimum of 3 CMC. It can be tough waiting till turn 4 to do anything with an enchantment sitting in your hand facing faster decks. Maybe think about a Satyr Hoplite or Arena Athlete for an earlier heroic creature in there. As far as what to cut to make room, Wavecrash Triton is a card I have been constantly trying to work into decks and make be the man because it is my favorite artwork out of the entire Theros set, but honestly Triton Tactics plus any other two heroic creatures generally ends up being better than Wavecrash plus any spell you hit him with (if you could figure out a way to actually make him the man that would be really exciting).

Made a couple of spin off decks from this conversation.

A different deck for Hour of Need:
http://www.mtgvault.com/thekraken/decks/economy-class/

A deck for Spirit Bonds:
http://www.mtgvault.com/thekraken/decks/the-spirit-of-battle/

Yeah, the more I look at the token shell the more it looks like it can only work on a perfect shuffle. I think the only way to make the token shell work might be to actually push it more towards the heroic build and use Vanguard of Brimaz as a token spewer with maybe Eidolon of Countless Battles instead of the Seraph as the benny of the tokens.

To get this build to 22 land I'm debating between dropping Phalanx Formation or trimming Icy Blast and Glimpse the Sun God down to 3 ofs.

Made a few tweaks. Satyr Grovedancer was mostly a stall play as a chump blocker with the bonus of giving someone a counter. I pulled her for Crippling Chill because for that one more mana it gives a two turn stall and can hit flyers/intimidate/etc as well. Crippling Chill also gives a card draw to replace itself and feed the Skulker. Swapped Fate Foretold out for Ordeal of Thassa. Tweaked numbers a bit to get one more Solidarity of Heroes and add Dragonscale Boon as an additional untap trick for the Scourge that also gives counters.

Added the draw cards. I'm thinking not Military Intelligence because of not wanting to put the tokens at risk before building a mass. Leaned Treasure Cruise over Jace's Ingenuity thinking there will be a lot of intant and sorcery cards in the graveyard to delve with.

Fate Unraveler + Master of Feasts + Sign in Blood = Hilarious. I likey. With all the draw card research you've got me doing for my decks it has me wondering about a black blue shell around this, mostly because of Dictate of Kruphix. The burn shell you have here is probably more efficient though.

Part of the scheme here is to abuse the green cards for +1/+1 counters without as much need for going full spam on card draw. Hardened Scales means each card draw actually equates to two counters on the Skulker, so half as many draws gets the same number of counters. Skulker doesn't care how he got his counters when he goes pop, so I've even been considering some of the other green counter it up cards like Dragonscale Boon, Incremental Growth, and Nature's Panoply. Those could also trip the heroic on the War-Wing Siren. That heroic trip bit is part of why I had Fate Foretold as the main draw card (Nylea's Presence gives a draw also, but that's bonus to its real purpose). I was trying to get the potential double value out of the card. Maybe those Fate Foretolds would be better off being something that is just a straight up draw card like Divination? What do you think about Dictate of Kruphix? I know it doesn't actually give card advantage because you give your opponent an extra draw as well, but with a Skulker and a Hardened Scales on the board that would be 4 counters an upkeep which would get out of control quickly.

The thing I'm trying to balance here is trying to not make it all about the Skulker. I'm trying to set the deck up so it can win on the back of the Skulker or the Scourge, or just be kaboom if they both play together. I sort of see War-Wing Siren as a fall back plan. I originally was thinking Wall of Frost leaning towards the 7 toughness to feed the Scourge but then went to the Siren because she could accidentally get beefed into something that does some damage. Maybe the three way split focus of Skulker, Scourge and heroic for the Siren is just too much though? I could perhaps look at something like Crippling Chill as an alternate way to help stall while also getting a draw.

Of course my main issue with God Favored General is I had to attack to tap him, and he'd just get blocked and die. Maybe if I worked Glimpse the Sun God in it would give a gimmicky way to tap him down without putting him at risk? Hmm....

I like it. Done!

I think if I went Treasure Cruise I'd need to drop Pull from the Deep. Part of my plan was having those instants and sorceries sitting there to be snatched back and reused. Maybe the card draw would be more valuable though? The other card draw engine I found that I'm wondering about if it would work for the token build is Military Intelligence. Wing two tokens at the opponent get a draw? Otherwise maybe it is just a case of dropping the Take Up Arms and sticking in two Jace's Ingenuity in that 5 drop slot. Dig Through Time won't be happening. I'm simply a casual player that likes to have a variety of fun decks to play with, so I as a rule just don't sink that much money into any one deck. I think if someone wanted to make this more competitive they could go that way. I figure they'd probably also include Elspeth as a token generator, but again I'm not dropping that kind of coin on a card.

I love me some Skulker, but you really need a sac outlet also. I'm actually trying to work out another deck for him (http://www.mtgvault.com/thekraken/decks/budget-you-can-count-on-me/), but I'm not sure I dig him this build. Spirit Bonds also looks like a really cool card to build around, but I'm not sure it fits here. Not enough non token creatures. Might be another deck for another day (brain is already starting to churn on that, damn you!) I tried God Favored General in a tribal soldier/token build, and I didn't like him. He lost his spot to Akroan Horse which gave me more reliable token generation and was also hilarious. Coral Barrier might be a fit. I dislike First Response. I'll have to go check out the Herald, I don't know that one. I actually had the Vanguard in the heroic build to start with but pulled him because I decided I was being more about the counter build up than the token creation. Launch the Fleet is more an epic heroic trigger that happens to create some disposable bodies is my thought on that build.

I made some tweaks to the heroic version of the build based on your comment if you want to give a looksie. Still noodling on how best to incorporate some of the concepts into the token build.

Made some tweaks based on recommendations from Bellz76 over on the ThauMASSturge version of the build. Add a playset of Icy Blast for full Thaumaturge abuse. Added Triton Fortune Hunters to get a card draw engine that felt like it fit the heroic slant. Finally, a couple Feat of Resistance for direct protection and counter pump up.

Launch the Fleet really does make you want to go u\w wit thaurmaturge. The reason I hadn't dropped Icy Blast into the heroic deck was because I was focusing on cards that I was willing to cast against my own guys to trigger the heroic. I was a little concerned about the ferocious aspect if one of the dudes beefed up to 4. It could still fit though being used as an early game heroic trigger and a late game lockdown. Perhaps actually a better card than Aerial Formation for that deck.

One of my big concerns is what exactly goes down if I don't have a Thaumaturge up near the top of the deck. I hadn't given a lot of thought to stuffing in some card draw to help improve the odds. Honestly, the card draw tactics isn't something I do well with in building or playing and need to get better about given how much I tend to play decks with blue. I'm going to give some serious thought to how card draw might fit in here.

I had Devouring Light in this build and some toughness heavy heroic creatures in the other build with Triton Tactics as my stall methods because I tend to face up against more midrange than aggro. Against aggro having a full set of Glimpse the Sun God and Icy Blast could perhaps be better. Maybe a good SB vs MB thing? Play Devoruing Light against mid range and swap them out for Glimpse the Sun God against aggro?

The token hate is an issue and would ruin the day for this deck. Aetherspouts would suck pretty hard too. One idea I've been batting around is pulling the Retraction Helix out for Negates. My thought being a Negate could stop a Bile Blight or a direct removal to the Thaumaturge or the Seraph. What do you think about that idea? I think on the heroic build your idea of Feat of Resistance would be better as it would give the protection, a counter, and a heroic trigger. That's pretty money right there.

Hour of Need is actually part of the reason I got stuck on Thaumaturge. In a pack I opened they were back to back the uncommon then rare. I started out just trying to figure out a deck around those two cards and in the process became a bit obsessed with Battlefield Thaumaturge. If I go the token route Hour of Need needs to find a home in it.

Thanks for the advice!

Yeah, if your facing a lot of red arch of aggy is the better bet. He could be swapped with the enforcer like you say against the right deck.

Archetype of Aggression would be my pick of those. The I get/you lose trample is nice, but also nice is the 1RR. That helps devotion for the Fanatic of Mogis. I also really like Krenko's Enforcer as a three drop with double red devotion. His intimidate basically makes him the red version of a 2/2 flyer for 3. He would also fix a key issue with this deck, a budget red deck with NO goblins! Come on now, we can't have that :p

Hadn't even thought about that added benefit. Penciled in 3 to the sideboard for now. If you have a chance I wouldn't mind some advice on another deck: http://www.mtgvault.com/thekraken/decks/budget-you-can-count-on-me/. I've been trying to figure out something around Chasm Skulker for a while. The complete sellout draw decks don't seem to cut it. I think Hardened Scales could be the secret to making him work.

ohh I like that card for impact and hilarious factor. I suck at doing sideboarding. I get so attached to what I stuck in the main that when it comes time to sideboard I can't get myself to figure out what to pull out. Any suggestions on how many jests you'd have in the sideboard (3x or go all on 4) and which cards you might drop down during the swap to go better against an aggro deck?

You took two of my favorite creature types, stuck them in one deck, and turned them into beasties. Yeah, that's a +1 from me. Who doesn't like a 12/12 kithkin? I've been working on a deck for my new fav kithkin Preeminent Captain and trying to anthem pump off the soldier type, but it never gets to that kind of nasty.

What about using scry from a little guy like Sigiled Starfish or alternatively Jace, The Living Guildpact's +1 to try to keep from having anything too costly on the top of your deck? Jace himself I guess is risky due to his CMC . At first I was thinking Vortex Elemental would be perfect here as a one drop that kicked stuff back to the library, but I reread the card and it has them shuffle their library so not as perfect.

The Longshot Squad did look awesome, but I think they might be too slow for this deck. I also want to increase the odds of getting the skulker and scourge going, so I dropped the hound archers and bumped up the skulker, scourge and grovedancer by 1.