Asturonethorius

Nobody said you didn't make good decks. Again you put words in mouth that not said. Legacy control is what you were talking about, when I said that legacy control will eat anything, because it's legacy control. Modern control isn't as good as you think. There is a reason why it's not played as much, because most modern format counterspells, are 2,3 mana. And most run 3 to 9 counterspells. And It's Easy Enough TO BAIT, SWITCH, SNEAK STUFF THRU COUNTERSPELLS. You learn to do that when you play against control.


And what I said about AUTUMN'S VEIL, SURGICAL EXTRACTION, LEYLINE OF LIFEFORCE, CAVERN OF SOULS, IS TRUE, THAT IT NEUTERS CONTROL. Players sideboard so much anti control hate. That's why blue black, blue, white counterspell control in Modern isn't as good as you think. Not saying it's Bad.

As far as what I said about infect, I read what I said in either SCRY, DUELIST, MTGSALVATION, TCG. They had a big freaking article on the players green white infect modern format deck win of a GP, PTQ, and how nobody sideboarded against his infect deck, because they thought nobody would run infect in a MODERN FORMAT tournament.

That mono blue infect tournament win was either a STANDARD FORMAT INFECT DECK, or if it was MODERN FORMAT, it was AFTER THE green white infect MODERN FORMAT deck win, which could have been the case since I did not mention the year, because did not know the exact year.

Also I know full well how awesome infect was in STANDARD FORMAT BACK IN THE DAY,as my BLUE BLACK GREEN INFECT DECK WAS PRETTY GOOD IN STANDARD BACK THEN (Took me most of the standard block to build it, only to have it cycle out 3 weeks to 1,2 months later.). But after Infect cycled out of standard. It for a short time ruled MODERN UNTIL MODERN FORMAT PLAYERS started sideboarding Melira to SHUT DOWN INFECT.

Then after that for a while Infect became a tier 1.5, tier 2, tier 2.5 ROGUE DECK. Almost everybody stopped playing it because of MELIRA, Sideboards. Then because of that, players stopped sideboarding for infect, because almost nobody played it in Modern Format. That's about the time the GW infect deck won a GP, PTQ. Then after that, INFECT WENT FROM ROGUE DECK, TO TIER 1.5 again.

Then shortly after that, was probably the time the Mono Blue infect won, pushing infect to a tier 1 to tier 1.5 deck,until it's a tier 1, top 10 deck today.

Infect was awesome in STANDARD FORMAT. Then there was a time when MODERN FORMAT infect decks, were not as good, and were ROGUE decks, until they gradually became the tier 1, top 10 deck they are today.

I actually wanted to turn my standard infect deck, into a Modern Format deck, but EVERYBODY sideboarded MELIRA, SHUTTED INFECT DOWN, so I went away from infect for a time, and built my blue, black, green infect deck for MODERN FORMAT, ABOUT 6,7 to 13 to 17 months ago.

Ok so made the following Changes. Turned the Iroas into 2 Mimic Vats, because of Vat Thragtusk combo in another deck of mine. Also Vat will help protect creatures, and copies, lots of Vat Shenanigans. Iroas and Thoctar were the only things that could turn into the 2 Vats, and 2 Simian Spirit guides. So now run 3 Birds, 2 Spirit Guides, 5 mana ramp dorks to speed ramp stuff into play faster.

Also went down to a better 63 cards, 24 lands 38.09% land mana ratio. Increased the Karplusan and Brushland, to go up to 10 lands that also make colorless mana, to fuel Mirrorpool better, while still producing dual land like multi types of color. Added Cavern of Souls to help stop counterspelling. Added Wooded Foothills fetch lands to help get whatever mana needed, and to thin out land of deck, so draw what non land stuff need, instead of land mid to late game. Added 2 basic lands, so that opponent would have to get out 3 Ghost Quarters, which probably won't happen.

I have never called PUSCHIN a idiot. Do I PUSH BACK, AND HECKLE THE HECKLER? YES. You will note that I only PUSHBACK,HECKLE the 1,2 HECKLERS. You will note that I don't heckle anyone who makes constructive comments.

I may disagree, but I explain why I agree or disagree. I use logic, reason. I don't heckle, call constructive commenters idiots. And making Heckling comments is not constructive.

Guess going to have to agree to disagree and move on. Also like I said the deck is not going to finish in 1st to 8th place consistently at a GP. PTQ, against tier 1 decks. About the best that deck will do is act as a spoiler, leveling playing field, being semi competitive, and finishing about 8th, 9th to 14th, 15th, 16th place at extreme best, at GP, PTQ, states, regional, CONVENTION, City, non FNM, or only those couple best in the country FNM's(not talking about average run of the mill crappy FNM TIMMY tournaments, I am talking about the type of FNM where everyone plays tier 1 decks, and plays in the GP, PTQ, PRO TOUR).

That's a reasonable expectation, and the goal of the deck.

If disagree with that, then fine, ok, agree to disagree, and move on.

But whatever don't keep on putting words in my mouth, that were either not said, not understood, misrepresented, misunderstood, taken out of context, blown out of proportion, etc. In other words don't spin,twist, what I say around.

And not saying you have done that, but hecklers have done that. Basically the Hecklers are nitpicking every letter of what I say, then heckling over it.

And getting tired of dealing with the hecklers in minority, and repeating, clarifying overlooked, misunderstood, etc, points.

If this crap keeps up, then will just delete the hecklers in the minority, if they don't drop it, move on.

You tell me to drop it. Others need to drop it. I just responding. The Sooner It's dropped, Move On, the sooner no no more responses from me. and this gets dropped, moved on from.

Look, I already said a ZILLION times deck is weak against HORDE, SWARM, WEENIE, TOKEN, SPEED, INFECT, WIN ON TURNS 1,2,3 DECKS. THAT'S WHAT A SIDEBOARD IS FOR, TO DEAL WITH THOSE PROBLEM DECKS.

As for control, the only 1 mana needed for COUNTER, APPLIES TO LEGACY. LEGACY IS NOT MODERN, LEGACY FORMAT DECKS EAT ALMOST ALL MODERN FORMAT DECKS. LEGACY, MODERN DONT COMPARE TO EACH OTHER.

There is only 1, 1 cmc COUNTER, and it gives a 2/2. And unless your playing a blue COUNTER deck with 15 to 30 COUNTERS IN IT, then yeah that would work, then after beating this deck would lose to all the speed, agro, midrange, counter hate out there.

Also most blue counter control decks only play with 5 to 10 to 13 counterspells, that cost 2,3 cmc, in MODERN FORMAT play. This means that likely not have land, mana to counter land destruction. And if they do counter land destruction, have enough land, mana, then will BAIT, SWITCH, SNEAK STUFF THRU, when their land is tapped, or when they temporarily run out of counterspells for 1,2,3 turns.

Also even if they counter stuff, I can still use Eternal Witness to get it back, and if counter that, then can shuffle the cards from graveyard back into library. Eventually going to run out of counterspells. And if tap mana to get out your win con, then don't have the mana to counter my win con.

And that's game 1. Game 2. I sideboard in Autumn's Veil, and Surgical Extraction, and Leyline of lifeforce, and then your counterspelling is NEUTERED. Same with game 3.

That's what sideboards do, they deal with problem decks.

And as I have said a ZILLION TIMES, U DID NOT SAY LAND DESTRUCTION IS TIER 1. NOR DID I SAY THIS DECK WAS TIER 1. I DID SAY THIS DECK US A TIER ONE POINT FIVE BETWEEN TIER ONE AND TWO, DECK AT BEST, AND THAT DECK US A SPOILER DECK, THAT LEVELS THE PLAYING FIELD, SEMI COMPETITIVE AGAINST TIER 1, ONE, TIER 1.5, ONE POINT FIVE, EXPENSIVE DECKS, AND THAT AMONGST PURE 100 PERCENT LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS IT IS 1 OF THE BETTER, TO BEST PURE LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, BECAUSE MOST PURE LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS ONLY DESTROY LAND BY, ON TURNS 3,4,5,6, NOT BY TURNS 1,2,3 LIKE THIS LAND DESTRUCTION DECK, AND DONT HAVE FINISHERS LIME THIS DECK HAS, AND DOES NOT DESTROY CREATURES LIKE THIS LAND DESTRUCTION DECK DOES. THAT'S WHY THOSE CASUAL KITCHEN TABLE LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, ARE CASUAL, FUN, AND THAT'S WHY THIS LAND DESTRUCTION DECK IS BETTER THAN THOSE LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, AND IS BETTER THAN CASUAL, FUN, KITCHEN TABLE NON COMPETITIVE FNM LIKE LESSER LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS.

ALSO THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT INFECT UNTIL A MODERN FORMAT PLAYER MADE A GREEN WHITE INFECT DECK AND WON A MODERN FORMAT PTQ TOURNAMENT, BECAUSE AT THE TIME INFECT WAS REGARDED AS A TIER 1.5, TIER 2, TIER 2.5 DECK, AND EVERYBODY THOUGHT SURELY NOBODY WOULD BE DUMB ENOUGH TO RUN INFECT SINCE IT IS TOO EASY TO SHUT INFECT DOWN WITH SIDEBOARDS, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THEN NOBODY WILL PLAY INFECT, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, NO NEED TO SIDEBOARD AGAINST INFECT, AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT PLAYER WON THE TOURNEY WITH HIS GREEN WHITE INFECT DECK, BECAME FAMOUS, HECKLED OVERNIGHT, SHOWED WHAT INFECT COULD DO, CAUSED PEOPLE TO WORK ON,INNOVATE INFECT, ETC, UNTIL NOW IT IS BETWEEN TIER 1 TO TIER 1.5, AND PLAYED A LOT, AND THE SAME KIND OF THING CAN HAPPEN, CAN GO FROM ROGUE DECK TO MAINSTREAM DECK WITH ROGUE DECKS LIKE MILL, DISCARD, WEREWOLF, LAND DESTRUCTION, AS WHAT HAPPENED WITH INFECT.

IF INFECT CAN JUMP FROM LOWER TIER, ROGUE DECK, TO HIGHER TIER MAINSTREAM DECK, LIKE IT DID, THEN SO CAN THE OTHER LOWER TIER ROGUE DECKS. IT'S JUST A MATTER IF TIME, INNOVATION, WHICH IS LACKING IN THIS COPY,NETDECK, COPY PASTE, BUILD TIER 1 DECK, PLAY TIER 1 DECK, INSTEAD OF CREATING, INNOVATING YOUR OWN TIER 1 DECK, AGE.

REMEMBER INFECT USED TO BE THE CRAP LAUGHING STOCK DECK OF MODERN. EVERYONE SAID INFECT WAS CRAP NOT COMPETITIVE, IT TOOK A GREEN WHITE INFECT DECK, AND A PLAYER IGNORING THAT TO PROVE OTHERWISE WITH A PTQ INFECT DECK WIN.

BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN I AM SAYING THAT LAND DESTRUCTION IS A TIER 1 DECK THAT WILL WIN A TOURNAMENT ANYTIME SOON. NOT SAYING THAT.HAVENT SAID THAT.

Putting this here, because no place to reply above. There is nothing wrong with CONSTRUCTIVELY DISAGREEING OUSCHIN, But you don't do that. It's not enough for you to say in a constructive way, that you think so an so is bragging, and that their deck is not as good as it is, as think should be in theory. It's not enough for you to say the problem with your deck, is a,b,c, for reasons X,Y,Z. No you have to insult, berate, belittle, name call, etc, and double down in that, if the person constructively disagrees, explains logic, etc, and if the person pushes back. You are very PUSHY, and have seen you behave that way in many of your comments on other people's decks. And then you wrongly charge me, others of the same behavior. I have not called you a idiot. About the worst I have said to you is that you are PUSHY, and that's the truth.

Next I what I said either is logically true, an or should be true in theory. The deck is in theory, in logic a tier ONE POINT FIVE BETWEEN TIER 1, AND TIER 2, and is a SPOILER deck, that level the playing field, semi competitive, etc. h e deck COMPARED TO MANY OTHER LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, is in theory, logically 1 of the better, best LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, BETTER THEN LOTS, MOST PURE 100 PERCENT LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS.

I explained why to you, xera. The reason why is MOST land destruction decks do not start destroying land until turns 3,4,5,6, and do not have ways to deal with creatures, and don't have win cons. There are a lot of CRAP land destruction decks out there,and that's why they are casual, kitchen table decks. This land destruction deck is BETTER THAN ALL THOSE LOTS OF CRAP LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS.

The reason why is this land destruction deck consistently destroys lands turns 1,2,3. And destroys creatures turns 4,5,6,7. Yes the deck has lots of pieces in order to do that. If the deck only had 1,2 of the required pieces, then you would be right that it wouldn't happen consistently. The deck has 8 mana dorks to help ramp the land destruction cards TWENTY THREE OF THEM, MOST OF THEM AT 3,4 CMC, NOT 4,5,6 CMC LIKE YOU ERRANTLY SAY. I that doesn't work the there are 4 BOOM, AND ELEVEN, 11 Broken into 8 FETCH LANDS, AND 3 DARKSTEEL CITADEL THAT WILL DESTROY LAND TURNS 1,2,3.

YES THAT'S A LOT OF REQUIRED PIECES, WHICH NORMALLY WOULD NOT BE GOOD IF ONLY HAD 1,2,3 OF LOTS OF PIECES. BUT THERE ARE 8 DORKS, 23 LAND DESTRUCTION CARDS, 4 BOOM, 8 FETCH LANDS, 3 DARKSTEEL LANDS, ALL ADDED TOGETHER THAT'S 42, FORTY TWO CARDS that HELP DESTROY LAND CONSISTENTLY on turns 1,2,3. Those 42 cards, an or 8 Mana Dorks, an or 4 BOOM, an or 8 FETCH LAND, and or 3 Darksteel, an or 23 land destruction cards, WILL, DO COME OUT CONSISTENTLY IN 100 TO 1000 SAMPLE HANDS, TURNS 1,2,3 TO DESTROY LANDS TURNS 1,2,3.

And it's not only 7 cards that deal with creatures, it's TEN CARDS THAT DEAL WITH CREATURES. 4 wrecking ball, 2 Befoul, 2 Acidic Slime, 2 Incendiary Command. 3,4,5 of those on average are going to be drawn per game. And it's not just those cards. There are ways to FETCH, DRAW, REUSE THOSE CARDS FROM GRAVEYARD.

Also since destroy opponents land turns 1,2,3, then opponent will only have ZERO, ONE, 2 LAND. That means that opponent will only have 1 or 2, 3 creatures at most, that are 1/1, 2/2. The game plan to deal with those, is too temporarily ignore them finish destroying most, almost all, all their land, then during a turn where they don't drop a land during the turn, destroy a creature turn 4,5,6,7, then destroy another land that drops, then either draw, fetch, reuse, get another creature removal card, to destroy another creature, then destroy another land, alternating back and forth between destroying land, creatures, only destroying creatures during those turns that opponent did not drop a land into play after destroying land. Yes that means that the creatures will knock you down to 17 life to 13 life, to 10 life, to 7 life, to 5 life, before you have totally destroyed their land till they have only 0 ZERO, 1, ONE LAND, and 0, ZERO, 1, ONE creature, until you use Primal command, or thragtusk to get more life, and until you get either thragtusk, an or Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Brutalizer Exarch, or Charmbreaker, or Incendiary Command, or Primal Command to get out finisher.

You keep on only seeing Goblin Dark-Dwellers or only 1 Charmbreaker and Errantly think those aren't going to come out, and if so, it will be too late, or after its needed, or LUCK, etc.

The thing your overlooking is 1 of each of the finishers is a 3 THREE OF A CARD CATEGORY CALLED FINISHER. and on average 1 or 2 of them will come out mid to late game on average without help.

Now you throw in 6, SIX ways to help the finishers get into play, 2 INCENDIARY COMMAND TO DRAW LOTS OF CARDS, 2 PRIMAL COMMANDS TO FETCH THE CARDS, 2 BRUTALIZER EXARCH TO FETCH THE FINISHERS. EXTREMELY RARE IS THE GAME, SAMPLE HAND, WHERE NONE OF THE FINISHERS COME OUT.

But then you Errantly think ok fine get them out, but they will b destroyed.

That's what Vat is for, to deal with, discourage that. Charmbreaker can swing for game in 1,2 turns, before they get a chance to remove, Thragtusk is anti removal, Goblin Dark-Dwellers will hit once before being destroyed.

Then there is Eternal Witness to fetch them back, and can shuffle them into library with PRIMAL COMMAND. To refetch, redraw, replay them later, and destroy more lands, creatures, etc.

The only problems for deck, is horde, swarm, weenie, Affinity, infect, win on turns 2,3 decks. But sideboard deals with those decks with BOARD WIPE, MELIRA, TRINISPHERE,ETC. This deck can handle those sideboard cards, problem decks, for this deck, can't handle those sideboard cards.

According to logical reasonable theory, concepts etc, sample hands, games, etc against Tron, Kiki Chord, Naya Midrange, Midrange, semi agro, werewolf like decks, etc, the deck has worked, will work, should work, and against the problem decks, the SIDEBOARD WILL, WOULD, SHOULD deal with problem decks.

Now it's obvious, your not going to get it, and will disagree, which is ok, and will continue to be a unconstructive, PUSHY, HECKLER, so no point in continuing HECKLERS GO TAKE YOUR HECKLING SOMEWHERE ELSE, or at the very least, STOP your HECKLING, behave yourself, make constructive comments, etc. And your comments have not been constructive.

1. Not everyone is criticizing deck. 2. Only 2,3 to 4,5, have, out of THE MAJORITY who have not criticized the deck, and actually think the deck is great, and have said deck is great 3. Only 1,2 of those few in the minority that have criticized deck, have given constructive criticism. 4. Being PUSCHY PUSHY and insulting, and belittling, and name calling, and offending is not constructive criticism. 5. The only ones who have called anyone a idiot is among the few who have UNCONSTRUCTIVELY criticizeddeck, me. 6. I still have not called anyone a idiot. I have given PUSCHBACK, PUSH BACK, when 1,2 were unconstructive criticizing me, deck, being pushy, insulting, etc.7. If don't want pushback from me, or anyone else, then behave yourself 8. Having a disagreement on logic, based on logic, then explaining why you disagree, with logic, and then trying to convince with logic, like I have done, is not calling someone a idiot.9. I have agreed with a couple, few, some of the constructive points made. I even acknowledged, said that deck is a tier 15 deck, between tiers 1 and 2 at best, and that the deck is a spoiler, level the playing field deck, and that it struggles against AFFINITY, HORDE, SWARM, WEENIE, INFECT, WIN ON,BY TURN 2,3 DECKS, ad that's what the sideboard is for. 10. Those points of course, never get seen, read,understood, agreed to, by the hecklers in the minority 11. I have even taken some of the constructive advice,when it's been made constructively, with logic, when I agreed with it. But as I said, that goes unseen, and if don't take every single suggestion, then they start behaving badly.

Now having said those factual,true points above,of course they wot be read seen, understood, agreed with, etc

Now that said, I think it would be great if the deck was tested at those places named. Problems I see tho, is if testing the deck there, at those places is ok, good, etc,then the few hecklers will say that it was against bad players, decks. Also if the deck did not do well, instead of covering why, and how to fix any of the problems, fine tuning deck, the few hecklers would not hesitate to heckle away, instead of being costructive. Also 1 to 5 games would not be a big enough sample size, the deck could have gotten lucky, or unlucky, etc. Only about 15 to 150 games would semi accurately test out deck. Also there are many great awesome decks that sometimes don't do well in competitive testing, because they were not fine tuned right. So initial competitive play testing does not always prove anything 1 way or another, and only sometimes reveals possible problem, that need to be fixed, and possible fine tunings that needed to be made.

For example back in INNISTRAD, DARK ASCENSION days I played in some of the toughest FNM'S ever. I made a werewolf deck, that without knowing it at the time, was extremely similar to PRO BRIAN KIBBLER'S werewolf deck build that finished in 16th place on the pro tour, which was the best a werewolf deck has done.

During initial playtesting of the deck, it was inconsistent. Great when it worked. I had to fine tune it, fix problems, replay test it, then some more fine tuning, fixing of problems, until it was competitive tournament ready.

At that 69 to 79 player super competitive FNM, the deck finished 4th, 5th place, and destroyed WOLF RUN TITAN (Tournament winner), and destroyed DELVER (finished 2nd, 3rd)

That demonstrates the proper way to use competitive playtesting.

If competitive play testing is not used that way, then there is really no point to it.

But if competitive play testing is used that way, the it is a good thing.

He was talking about my sideboard, with the point about Sudden Shock. And my response to the point, was, is about the sideboard. Sudden Shock only deals 2 damage tho, so it's creature power reach is bad, below average, ok at best. Now if it was 2 damage, boardwipe, that would make it better. As a sideboard slot, I am looking for 2,3 BOARD WIPE cards, to help my 2 BOARD WIPE INCENDIARY COMMAND MAINDECKED cards, boardwipe swarm, horde, token, weenie, win on turns 2,3 by sheer number of 1/1, 2/2, 3/3 creatures decks, which are a problem. Have plenty of way to deal with, spot removal creatures, so don't need spot removal in Sideboard, as spot removal is not a problem, not lacking in main deck. That's why in my sideboard Slagstorm is a better fit then sudden shock.

As a main deck card, the problem is lack of reach, and that it does not also destroy a land. As such it takes away a deck slot that could be used to destroy a land, an or a creature, which is extremely important in a land destruction deck notorious for their limited slots, and needing LOTS of land destruction cards, cards that help land destruction. As such there is no room for sudden Shock, heck not even room for BOLT, which is better then sudden shock, because BOLT doesn't also destroy a land.

Yes Wrecking Ball affects the curve, but as long as it's not more then 1,2 more of them, and as long as not decreasing the BOOM, MOLTEN RAIN, STONE RAIN, and as long as not more then 3,4 cmc, and AS LONG AS HAVE ENOUGH TO PLENTY OF FETCH LANDS, BLACK DUAL LANDS,ETC, AND I DO WITH 8 FETCH LANDS,AND 14 TO 17 DUAL LANDS, BIRDS, SIMIAN SPIRIT GUIDES, WHICH I DO HAVE THAT, THEN WILL STILL HAVE THE MANA TO CAST IT, AND WILL STILL BE ABLE TO CONSISTENTLY DESTROY LAND BY, ON TURNS 1,2,3, BECAUSE ONLY LOWERS CHANCE TO DO THAT BY ABOUT 1,2,3% percentage points while increasing the numbers of cards that destroy creatures, making it either a fair trade off or extremely close to being a fair trade off.

Also adding the extra Wrecking Ball, made it possible to cut 1 Acidic Slime to add 1 semi finisher, in Thragtusk, so trade off worth it. Adding 1 more Wrecking Ball has helped, will help deck. Having 1 more creature removal card does help. And before you say it's 4 cmc, that's not a issue,the reason why it's not an issue, is because 4 cmc is castable
turns 2,3,4,5. My goal is not to destroy a creature by, on turns 1,2,3, when I would rather be destroying a land. If I wanted to destroy a creature turns 1, 2,3 I would run BOLT. Instead I would rather be destroying land early turns, then destroy a creature turns 4,5,6, which I can better do with more Wrecking Ball type creature removal cards. But if I run BOLT, in place of wrecking ball, then I won't be able to destroy a land on turn 2, an or 3, as well, because of less land destruction cards, this is why want 3,4 cmc combo land destruction, creature destruction card like wrecking ball, the VERSATILITY, IF PLAY WRECKING BALL, OR LACK OF VERSATILITY, IF DONT PLAY WRECKING BALL, EITHER MAKES, BREAKS LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS. MAKES IF YOU PLAY WRECKING BALL, BREAKS IF YOU DONT PLAY WRECKING BALL.

Well I have seen PUSCHIN be very puschy, and make puschy, pushy comments on others pages. I have seen him make very unconstructive comments, where he insults, belittles, offends, argues, etc, on others deck pages. Am surprised that has not been noticed by others and hasn't affected his reputation.

Also He Has Exhibited The Same Bad Behavior here. Also if you note earlier CONSTRUCTIVE comments by others, you will see a constructive discussion about constructive comments, and GASP, even me taking some of the suggestions.

Now why did I take some of their suggestions? Because they were consructive, made sense, non pushy.

Also when PUSCHYIN made his comments, he lost credibility with his LUDICROUS CLAIM about the mana base being sucky.

He did have 1 VALID point AMONGST HIS MANY INVALID POINTS that I acknowledged, agreed with.

Of course a legacy, vintage deck would most likely beat most, to almost all modern format decks, including this deck. Fortunately this deck doesn't have to play against the rack, force of will, which are all NOT Modern format legal. Most good legacy, Vintage decks would beat the crap out of this deck.

This deck does just fine against control.

Turn 2, unless they went first, and have a 2 Cmc counterspell in hand, they are not likely to counter my Land destruction spell. Which means down to ZERO, 1 land, maybe 2 land for the rest of the game, and there are no 1 cmc force of will like counterspells in Modern Play that are legal. Mental Mistep, would tear my deck up as a 4 of in any deck, but they are BANNED in Modern Format play.

And even if do succeed countering Land destruction card turn 2, deck has 23 land destruction cards, ammo, to bait, switch, sneak stuff thru, into play that will beat control about 50% of the time in game 1, then game 2, I side in Autumn's Veil, Surgical Extraction Leyline of lifeforce, and then controls counterspells, removal spells won't do anything to the deck.

Because of that this deck beats modern format blue control decks. Remember this is not a aggro deck, where looking to buy time against. Go ahead, counterspell, remove creatures, all you want, because most creatures are in deck for their ETB enter the battlefield effects. All you will do us buy me more time, as well as as buy yourself more time. Then with that more time, I will eventually beat you with my win con, that will probably get out because you probably used counter, removal earlier, because if you dont, and save it for the win con, then your landless, and I have creatures to mash you earlier. Also plenty of bait, switch material I'm this deck. So if this deck is played smartly, it will beat Modern control decks, about 50 to 53% of the time.

You don't get the value of destroying a land turn 1 and turn 2, and then destroying a creature turn 3,4,5, after destroying 2,3,4 of their lands. No lands, No creatures, because destroyed their 2,3,4,5 lands, during turns 1,2,3,4,5, then destroying their 1,2 creatures turns 4, 5,6, equals this deck wins.

The only problem decks are AFFINITY, HORDE, SWARM, WEENIE, INFECT, WIN ON TURNS 2,3, ETC, DECKS. And my sideboard deals with those problem decks

Decided to add in 1 thragtusk, he does give the 5 life, waste a removal spell, makes a 3/3, plus if they remove him with VAT out, VAT will trigger. And can kill my own thragtusk, making a 3/3 to trigger Vat, and can then activate Vat, pay 3 mana each turn to get 5 life, and a permanent 3/3, because it will create a thragtusk token each turn that gives 5 life, and creates a permanent 3/3 each turn.

Now why only 1, instead of 2? Isn't room for 2 Thragtusk for 1 thing. 2. There are 6 ways in 2 Primal Command, 2 Brutalizer Exarch, 2 Incendiary Command, to get Thragtusk out, so only need 1 thragtusk, to go along with only room for 1 thragtusk.

I made room for thragtusk, by adding 1 more Wrecking ball, which made it possible to cut a Acidic Slime, which made it possible to add 1 more 5 cmc card in Thragtusk, while staying at 8, 5 cmc cards, instead of 9, 5 cmc cards, which is important because if went to 9, 5 cmc cards, would have a lot of high mana cost cards in opening hand, and draw a lot of high mana cost cards, which would cause turn 1, 2, 3 land destruction to happen less consistently.

Could have cut the stone rain for Thragtusk , but that would have also lessened consistency of turns 1,2,3 land destruction, and again would have made for 9, 5 cmc cards, instead of 8, 5 cmc cards, which would have caused even more inconsistency.of turns 1,2,3 land destruction.

So with the changes the deck should still destroy land destruction on turns 1,2,3 consistently, and should still have plenty of creature removal consistently, and should get enough life gain from Primal Command, and Thragtusk, and more creatures from thragtusk, and more dealing with creature removal with thragtusk.

Also let it never be said that I never take good suggestions. And good suggestions, are much more constructive comments then a couple, few, some of the comments some have made.

Thanks for suggesting Thragtusk.

Decided to add Melira Sylvok to the Sideboard. Thanks for the suggestion. Did not use Sudden Shock As Slagstorm is Better. Added 1 more Wrecking Ball to go to 61 cards, 23 lands, a 37.5% land, mana ratio, and to go to 11, ELEVEN ways to deal with creatures, instead of 10. In playtesting sample hands, the deck still destroys lands consistently by, on turns 1,2,3, and gets out creature removal more often.

After looking at trying to figure out a way to squeeze thragtusk in, the only possible way, would be to cut 1 Acidic Slime, add 1 deck slot to go to 61 cards, 23 lands. But if I was going to cut 1 out of the 3 Acidic Slime, and add 1 deck slot, I would add 1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers, and 1 CHARMBREAKER, instead of adding 2 Thragtusk, which would make a lot more sense if I tried to do that. And I may cut 1 Acidic Slime, add 1 deck slot, to goto 61 cards, 23 land, so that can add 1 more Goblin Dark-Dwellers, and 1 more Charmbreaker, but if do that, I am going to have to split turn the 2 Stone Rain into adding 1 more Molten Rain, and 1 more Wrecking Ball to make up for losing 1 Acidic Slime, a card that deals with creatures. That would make more sense then trying to squeeze in 2 Thragtusk.

Sorry all, I am guilty as charged when it comes to me being wordy, long winded, making long comments. But the long comments, or shorter comments with many points is causing my comments to be longer, because I am addressing each of their points in my comments. That makes my comments longer. If they made 1 point per comment, then my comments wouldn't be as long. Also could just make multiple comments addressing 1 point each, that address points made in earlier comments. But that would increase the volume of comments, and also if do that then get a bunch of responses before get a chance to finish addressing points made to earlier comments. That's another reason why I make a longer comment addressing many points made in earlier comments, instead of making shorter comments.

1. The deck doesn't need a lot of finishers. Also if you add a lot of finishers, then instead of having 23 land destruction cards, you would only have about 13 to 17 land destruction cards. 13 to 17 land destruction cards is not enough, and will consistently LOSE. Every time I and others I know have used only 13 to 17 land destruction cards, that loses. Also 1 of the finishers can be pumped up to 8/4, 12/4, 16/4. And it's not just those 2 finishers, 2 Brutalizer Exarch, and 2 Primal Command, make getting the finisher out easily on, by turns 4,5,6,7,8 consistently. And if they Lightning Axe, Goblin Grenade, etc, it, Eternal Witness can, will get it back. And they are likely to have used their 3 to 6 to 9 1 cmc removal on Acidic Slime, Bird, Eternal Witness, etc, so will have less removal for finishers. Also in a land destruction, resource denial, destruction deck, you only need 1,2,3 finishers, as long as have ways to fetch them, and ways to get them back, if they are destroyed. The only thing that deck worries about, that wrecks it's graveyard Shenanigans is Path to Exile.

2. Again the purpose of the deck is to be a SPOILER, Level the playing field, equal the playing field, TIER 1.5 ONE POINT FIVE, BETWEEN TIERS 1 AND 2, AT THE BEST in COMPETITIVE MODERN FORMAT PLAY. Competitive does not have to mean PRO TOUR, Competitive play is any tournament that has good competitive players with tier 1, tier 1.5, tier 2 decks. As an example, my local FNM is the toughest in the country, with 1/5 to 1/2 of the players ranked in the top 25 to 250 players in the city, state, region, etc, where they play regularly in Grand Prix, PTQ's. 1 of the players, not me, has even played in 1 of the PRO TOUR events, and always finishes 1 to 4 place at the FNM. And almost all the players in that FNM use tier 1, tier 1.5, tier 2 decks. That makes that particular FNM a COMPETITIVE tournament, despite most FNM's not being competitive. Also FNM is a STANDARD FORMAT tournament, not a Modern Format Tournament.

3. Since this deck makes it so that opponent only has 0,1,2 land, opponents won't be able to get threats out, unless they are playing a HORDE, SWARM, WIN ON TURNS 1,2,3, type deck, which is BOARD WIPED BY 2 of INCENDIARY COMMAND, on, by turn 3,4, and by SIDEBOARD.

And 1 of the 10 cards that deal with creatures, will remove a creature turns 3,4,5,6,7. And since they won't get out threats, or will have me destroy their threats, then big deal if they destroy my stuff. Most of my creatures are ETB creatures. A. Birds are only used to turns 2,3 to ramp stuff, by, on, after turns 3,4,5 let them destroy the bird for all I care. It served it's purpose already. B. Spirit Guides are designed to remove from hand, game, for ramp, so they are usually not destroyed, casted. C. Once Eternal Witness hits the board, it fetches something back from graveyard, so it let them destroy it, it served it's purpose. D. If Acidic Slime gets destroyed, it served it's purpose of destroying something, probably a land, by entering into play, and keeping any threats at bay for 1,2 turns, so after that let them destroy it for all I care. E. Brutalizer Exarch, by entering into play, and either removing something, or searching for something, has served it's purpose, let them destroy it. F. The only creatures I do CARE about, DO NOT want to see get destroyed are Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Charmbreaker Devils, but even if them, or anything else gets destroyed, put into graveyard, I can fetch it back, destroy a land, keep up the destroying their stuff pressure, then put the destroyed thing back into play. Worst case scenario, they keep on destroying my stuff,until like turn 30, after they have destroyed my stuff 20 times, they finally run out of 25 kill spells, and I finish them off.

4. No Land destruction decks are not new. I am well aware of that. Also aware that Land destruction decks are not tier 1. I didn't say Tier 1, I said tier ONE POINT FIVE BETWEEN TIER ONE AND TIER TWO. And all PURE land destruction decks(not decks with only just 3 to 6 land destruction cards) will have the same similar problems of dealing with horde, swarm, weenie, infect, AFFINITY, win on, by turn 1,2,3 decks. All PURE Land destruction decks NEED a SIDEBOARD, and will lose game 1 against problem decks, then sideboard, then win games 2,3. The reason why this PURE LAND DESTRUCTION DECK, is better then most, almost all other pure land destruction builds, is that most, almost all pure land destruction decks, DO NOT destroy lands turn 1, turn 2. Most don't destroy land until turn 3 at fastest, turn 4 normally, turn 5 at the slowest. Those decks are the FUN, casual, Kitchen Table decks. Also those lesser land destruction decks don't have ways to remove creatures, and they don't put in Win Con, FINISHER into deck, that's why they are lesser, casual, fun, kitchen table type decks. My PURE land destruction deck Destroys Land turns 1,2, turn 3 at the slowest, instead of like other decks destroying lands turns 3 4,5. My deck deals with creatures turns 3,4,5,6, unlike other decks that dont. My deck has a finisher, win con, unlike those that dont. My deck has ways to FETCH, get what want, need, others dont. Mine can reuse, get stuff back from graveyard, others dont.

Because my deck destroys lands on turn 1 and turn 2, and deals with creatures, and has a win con, and can fetch stuff, and get stuff back, and can keep on pressuring, controlling, destroying their land from turn 1 to turn 19, that makes this deck better then some fun, casual, kitchen table deck, and a tier 1.5 to tier 2 semi competitive, level the playing field, spoiler type of deck.

5. Running a Stone Rain deck, without black with only Goblin Dark-Dwellers is less effective then this deck. Yeah the trade off is can destroy land even more consistently by 3 to 9% percentage points better, more of the time on turns 1,2,3, but by doing that you are losing the ability to deal with creatures. Because without Wrecking Ball, Befoul, then only have Acidic Slime to deal with creatures, unless you run a LIQUID METAL COATINGS LAND DESTRUCTION DECK, but the problem with that is that deck takes to many parts, pieces. You have to have Myr Land Shaper, Ancient Stirrings, 6,7 Mana Dorks combined with Liquid Metal Coatings to semi consistently destroy a land turns 1,2 with Liquid Metal Coatings. And that means only 15 to about 20 artifact destruction cards. Which means sometimes you get out Liquimetal, but no artifact removal, or get lots of Artifact removal, but no liquimetal, no Landshaper, so stuck with Artifact removal that cant destroy lands, creatures..

But going back to your comment of Molten Rain, Stone Rain, Boom, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, like I said, no way to deal with creatures, if take out Incendiary Command, Wrecking Ball, Befoul. Beast Within could be used, but that replaces a creature with another 3/3 creature. Could use Wild Swing, but that is way too Random. So unless there is some other card that destroys a land, or a creature like wrecking ball, that is 2,3,4 cmc, that is not black, that is Modern Legal, that doesnt have a bad side effect, like giving a opponent a 3/3, etc, that I have not heard of, then if take Wrecking Ball, Befoul, Incendiary Command out, then there would be a most nothing in deck, that could be in, added to deck, that would destroy a land, an or destroy a creature, that 2,3,4 cmc, that not black. And before anybody says BOLT, BOLT ONLY DESTROYS A CREATURE, IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE OPTION OF EITHER DESTROYING A LAND, OR DESTROYING A CREATURE. And THERE IS NO ROOM in deck for cards that are not versatile, don't give you the option, choice of either destroying a land,an or creature. That's because in a PURE land destruction deck, that notorious for limited space, slots, and because MUST HAVE 20, 21,22,23,24 land destruction cards, then the only way Gina make it work is using cards like wrecking Ball that destroys both a land, creature. If I put in BOLT, would have to cut 2,3,4 land destruction cards, or Birds, Spirit Guides, or Eternal Witness, or VAT, or Exarch, or Goblin, or Charmbreaker, etc, which is, would be unacceptable, wouldn't work, would cause deck not to work. There is no room for BOLT or any other creature removal card that does not also destroy a land.

The next problem with your suggestion, is Goblin Dark-Dwellers, IF was going to take out PRIMAL COMMAND, INCENDIARY COMMAND, WRECKING BALL, BEFOUL, THEN running 2,3 Goblin Dark-Dwellers, might be ok. The problem is taking out those CAPS cards would make the deck worse, not better. Also the problem with Goblin Dark-Dwellers is A. If over used, removes too many targets for CHARMBREAKER. B. It only reuses the card once before Exiling it, instead of reusing the card 3,4,5, etc, times like with CHARMBREAKER. C. Does not pump up like CHARMBREAKER. So usually what happens with Goblin Dark-Dwellers,is that it comes into play, Reuses a land destruction card, destroys a land, either deals no damage, 4 to 8 damage depending on how fast they remove it. CHARMBREAKER on the other hand can swing for game by casting 1,2 spells, doing 8 to 12 to 16 damage in 1, turns. That's something that Goblin Dark-Dwellers won't do. Goblin, and Charmbreaker work really well together, and as such both Goblin, Charmbreaker both should be in the deck both.

6. Your Main Deck, sideboard suggestions: These are the most appreciated, constructive parts of your comments.

A. Melira Sylvok, and sudden Shock, is a good suggestion, problem is finding room in sideboard. If sudden shock is better than Anger of Gods, Slagstorm, it will go in the sideboard, and take those slots.

B. Thragtusk would only go in deck if it was a finisher, to replace Goblin, Charmbreaker, which it is not. If replaced Brutalizer Exarch then would have 2 less cards to remove land, and 2 less cards to search, tutor, fetch a creature, and would only have 2 PRIMAL Command, to search up creatures. And if I replace Primal Command With Thragtusk, then 2 less land removal cards, 2 less search for creatures cards. Yes Thragtusk gives you 5 life, hits for 5, waste a removal card, produces a 3/3 if removed. Thing is tho, PRIMAL COMMAND already gives me 7 life, and I can get 7 life over and over with Eternal Witness, and Charmbreaker. I don't think some of you get just how awesome Primal Command is. So 5 more life, is nothing compared to the 7 to 14 life of Primal Command, depending on how many times you copy it, Reuse it. Another problem with Thragtusk is its 5 cmc, and that it does not do anything to either destroy a land, or reuse land destruction cards, or find, get anything that helps destroy stuff in future. Also if added Thragtusk, would have too many 5 cmc cards in deck, and would have to remove Primal Command, Acidic Slime, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Brutalizer Exarch, Charmbreaker, to make room for Thragtusk, and all those cards are better fits for, in this deck then thragtusk. Thragtusk just isn't as good as a fit in a land destruction deck with limited space,slots, as it's a better fit in other decks. Also thragtusk is not good vs speed, agro decks, as it doesn't come out until turns 3,4,5, unless get super lucky and drop him turn 2 which is theoretically possible, but ultimately extremely rare almost never ever happens. Also not going to replace VAT with 2 Thragtusk. I will look for a way to squeeze in 2 Thragtusk, because he is good, just don't think there is room for him in the deck.

You have misread the deck, deck description, and the comments. 1. I did not call him, or anyone else a idiot. 2. I have not called anyone who constructively criticized the deck a idiot. 3. Only 1,2 people, mainly PUSCHKIN (fitting name for his puschy behavior). 4. Said puschy PUSCHIN started off his comments in a UNCONSTRUCTIVE, INSULTING, OFFENSIVE BELITTLING WAY TOWARDS BOTH ME, THE DECK. 5. If your going to behave that way, expect PUSCHBACK. 6. I have read similar unconstructive, insulting, offensive, belittling, argumentive, etc, post, comments from him, where he behaves like a know it all, towards others. 7. He PUSCHIN made both some valid, invalid points. 8. His comments about the MANA BASE WERE ABSURD, LUDICROUS IN THE EXTREME. 7,8 of the right kind of FETCH LANDS, AND 5 to 8 of the right kind of dual lands, makes running, splashing a 3rd color, running a cards with 2 black, or whatever the splash color is, doable in competitive play. Now if I ran 4 BEFOUL, and 4 of another double black card, there probably might probably be a problem. But that wasn't the case. It was 2 BEFOUL, and playtesting sample hands, games proved, showed no problems getting the mana to cast the card. If there was a problem, I wouldn't play that card. 8. PUSCHIN only made the comment to to say, imply "Your deck sucks so bad, even your mana base sucks. That, or he really thinks that, and if he does, he has ZERO credibility, his reputation, be darned.

9. He did make a Valid point, the same as 1 of the points you made, that is the same Valid point. And it's a point I acknowledged, and explained how deal with the valid point. But even tho I have acknowledged, explained how deal with point, it doesn't get read, understood.

So again will go over this again. Here I will use CAPS SO IT'S GETS SEEN, READ THIS TIME.

YES THE DECK STRUGGLES AGAINST AFFINITY, WIN BY, ON TURNS 1,2,3,4 HORDE DECKS. MY SIDEBOARD, DEALS WITH THOSE DECKS. The deck does well against TRON, MIDRANGE, KIKI CHORD. IT DESTROYED A MODERN FORMAT WEREWOLF DECK. IT DESTROYED NAYA MIDRANGE.

Now here is where you misunderstand deck. It does not take 2 Spirit Guides. You think the deck doesn't start destroying land until turn 2 at the earliest, turn 3 normally, turn 4 at the latest. THAT IS WRONG.

TURN 1: chance to destroy a land about 17% to 24% to destroy a land.

How it is done:

A. Drop 1 of 3 Dark Citadel turn 1. Remove 1 of 4 Simian Spirit Guide from hand for 1 red. Tap Darksteel for 1 mana, cast 1 of 4 Boom, destroy land.

B. Drop any land turn 1. Remove 2 Spirit Guides, play either Molten Rain, or Stone Rain, destroy a land.

That happens on TURN 1, about 17 to 24% of time.

It is not a TURN 2 PLAY. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REMOVE TO GUIDES TO DESTROY A LAND TURN 2, WHERE IF YOU FAIL TO REMOVE 2 SPIRIT GUIDES YOU HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL TURN 3 TO DESTROY LAND. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THAT.

TURN 2: Chance to destroy a land is about 83 to 85 to 87%, if fail to destroy a land on turn 1.

HOW IT IS DONE:

A. Turn 1 Bird. Turn 2: Molten Rain, Stone Rain, destroy a land.

B. Turn 1 drop land no bird, can either be any red mana source, or Darksteel. Turn 2 Darksteel, or Red mana land if not played turn 1. Turn 2 Boom destroy a land.

C. Turn 1 Bird. Turn 2 a FETCH LAND, Boom destroy a land.

D. Turn 1 no bird, turn 2 remove 2 Spirit Guides, Molten Rain, Stone Rain a land.

E. Turn 1 Bird, Turn 2 remove 1 spirit guide, Wrecking ball, or Befoul destroy a land on turn 2.

Now applying the above: Turn 1 Opponent plays land. Turn 1 since only 17 to 24% chance to destroy land, then probably either play 1 bird, or if no bird hold onto that 1 spirit guide in hand, or draw 1 spirit guide turn 2.

Turn 2: If go first 87% chance to destroy a land. Turn 2 for opponent,after his land got destroyed turn 2, he plays a land. If opponent goes first, opponent plays a 2nd land, then gets it destroyed turn 2, so has 1 land.

At this stage of the game, unless the opponent is playing Affinity, or a weenie, 1 cmc, horde, swarm deck, or gets lucky where can drop a Tarmogoyf turn 2 if they went first, and if lucky enough to play it then, unless that's the case opponent is behind, hurting, can't do anything. Even if they bolt the BIRD. Turn 3 will probably have 3 mana to Molten Rain, Stone Rain, or Boom destroy a 2nd land in a row, turn 3.

So after turn 3 they are likely at either no land, or 1 land, which again is not enough for foe to do anything, unless Affinity, horde, swarm, etc.

Turn 4: Now have either 4 land, or 1 Bird, plus 3 land, or 1 Spirit Guide, 3 land. In any case, usually have 4 mana turn 4. So destroy a 3rd land in a row, with 1 of 5, 4 cmc, either Wrecking Ball, or Befoul, or another Molten Rain, or Stone rain, or Acidic Slime, if have either a Bird, or a Spirit Guide.

So now opponent has no land, 1 land, can't do anything, unless affinity, swarm.

Turn 5 either Acidic Slime, or Goblin Dark-Dwellers, or Charmbreaker, or Eternal Witness, or Mimic Vat, or destroy a snuck out creature with Wrecking Ball, Befoul.

Now if they used removal, counters, on other earlier stuff, they likely do not have a way to stop you now, with only
0,1,2 land.

Yes, if they are a HORDE, SWARM DECK, AFFINITY, this won't happen, and this deck is toast.

Fortunately not everyone plays horde, swarm, AFFINITY, some play TRON, KIKI CHORD, AND OTHER DECKS THIS DECK DOES GREAT AGAINST.

AND EVEN WHEN THEY DO, THAT'S WHAT SIDEBOARDS ARE FOR.

10. WHAT I JUST DID I THE LAST 9 POINTS IS MAKE POINTS USING LOGIC, REASON, ETC, TO EXPLAIN, MAKE POINTS, DOING THAT IS NOT CALLING PEOPLE IDIOTS, IS NOT BEING ARGUMENTATIVE, IS NOT BEING A KNOW IT ALL, ETC.

NOW IF YOU WANT TO SAY I AM WORDY, TO LONG IN MY COMMENTS, POINTS, LOGIC, ETC, THEN GUILTY OF BEING WORDY, TO LONG IN MY COMMENTS.

ALSO ALL PURE LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, WHETHER MINE, YOURS ARE GUILTY AS CHARGED BY YOU OF THAT THEY DONT DO WELL AGAINST HORDE, SWARM, AFFINITY.

THE ONLY WAY A MODERN FORMAT LAND DESTRUCTION DECK IS GOING TO TOP 8 CONSISTENTLY, LIME YOU SAY YOU DO, IS IF IT'S NOT A PURE LAND DESTRUCTION DECK, AND ONLY HAS A COUPLE, FEW, SOME LAND DESTRUCTION CARDS, TO HELP THEIR DECK.

ALSO I NEVER SAID THAT I SUPPOSEDLY EXPECT TO TOP 8 ON THE PRO TOUR. YOU AND OTHERS ARE PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH, THAT I DID NOT SAY.

WHAT I DID SAY IS THIS: THAT THE GOAL, PURPOSE, EXPECTATION OF THIS DECK IS TO BE A SPOILER DECK THAT LEVELS, EQUALS THE PLAYING FIELD AGAINST EXPENSIVE $1350 DECKS, AND FINISHES IN ABOUT 7TH TO 14TH PLACE IN COMPETITIVE MODERN FORMAT TOURNAMENTS, AND FOR THE DECK TO BE A TIER 1 5 DECK, BETWEEN TIERS 1 AND 2 AT THE BEST. AND THAT AMONGST PURE 100% PURE, DEDICATED, FOCUSED, ETC, LAND DESTRUCTION DECKS, THIS DECK IS 1 OF THE BETTER, BEST OF THOSE KIND OF DECKS.

THAT'S REASOBABLE, SINCE THE DECK DOES CONSISTENTLY DESTROY LAND ON, BY TURN 2, WHAT WITH 8 MANA DORKS, AND 23 LAND DESTRUCTION CARDS.

AND SINCE THE DECK HAS 10 CARDS THAT DESTROY CREATURES TURNS 4,5,6,7, AND LOTS OF WAYS TO EITHER DRAW, SEARCH FOR, REUSE FROM GRAVEYARD, SHUFFLE THEM BACK INTO LIBRARY, ETC.

AND SINCE THE DECK HAS A GREAT SIDEBOARD AGAINST PROBLEM DECKS.

MAYBE IF YOU TOOK THE ACTUAL TIME TO READ, STUDY, BREAKDOWN THE DECK, DECK DESCRIPTION, THEN PLAYTEST THE DECK, YOU WOULD GET WHY THE DECK ISN'T AS BAD AS YOU THINK, AND WHY THE DECK IS A GOOD DECK.

OR MAYBE IF YOU ACTUALLY USED LOGIC TO MAKE YOUR POINT, INSTEAD OF YOUR DECK SUCKS BECAUSE IT WONT DO WELL AGAINST AFFINITY, ETC, AND BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSEDLY SLOE, ETC.

MEANWHILE, YOU GUYS HAVE NOT REBUTTLED ANY OF MY POINTS WITH LOGIC.

I HAVE USED LOGIC, EXPLAINED WHY, HOW THE DECK, CONSISTENTLY DESTROYS LANDS TURNS 1,2,3, AND HOW IT USES ITS 10 DIFFERENT WAYS TO DESTROY CREATURES CONSISTENTLY TURNS 4,5,6,7.

NEITHER YOU, NOR PUSCH, has REFUTED THOSE POINTS WITH LOGIC

EITHER PROVE. REFUTE IT WITH LOGIC, ETC, LIKE I HAVE DONE.

AND ME, AND OR OTHERS PAYING $1000 TO MAKE THE DECK, THEN TRAVEL 300 TO 900 MILES, PAY $35 to $50 for gas, or $100 to $200 for bus, or $650 by plane, then $300 to $500 just for hotels for 1,2,3,4 days, nights, then the $50 to $200 entry fee into the PRO TOUR TOURNEY, IS NOT REALISTIC.

IT'S NOT NECESSARY TO DO THAT TO EITHER PROVE, DISPROVE DECK.

LOGIC, REASON, PLAYTESTING EITHER IS, OR SHOULD BE ENOUGH

Sorry Arkas, that missed your question, it got buried amongst past comments. Can you post your questions, comments down here, so that they don't get buried amongst past comments. Thanks if you do that.

Now to answer your question about Mimic Vat. Yes with Mimic Vat, have to either kill your own creature, or block a FOE'S creature, to get your creature killed, or have your opponent spot removal, board wipe a creature. That's how Mimic Vat is triggered. Typically I use Mimic Vat in combo with Acidic Slime, Eternal Witness. If I am going to use a valuable wrecking Ball, or a Befoul to kill a creature to trigger Mimic Vat, it needs to be replaceable. If I kill a Acidic slime, to trigger Vat, then that's ok, because Acidic Slime as a Vat token, has DEATHTOUCH, to deal with creatures. If I kill a Eternal Witness, then every time Vat makes a Eternal Witness Token, I get back a wrecking Ball or Befoul, or Acidic Slime, or a Eternal Witness, back from the graveyard. If I kill a Brutalizer Exarch, then each time Vat makes a Exarch, I can search for a Acidic Slime, or a Eternal Witness, or a Goblin Dark-Dwellers, or a Charmbreaker, and or can remove a land or any other noncreature permanent.

So there are plenty of Targets for Vat. And plenty of way to kill own creatures to trigger Vat.

But even if don't trigger Vat,Mimic Vat is a kind of creature removal DETERRENCE. If your opponent kills 1 of my creatures, they trigger Vat, so because that would be a bad thing for the opponent to do, opponents hold off, wait until it's absolutely necessary before killing my creature, triggering Vat. It's like they are darned if they do kill my creature, trigger Vat, and Darned if they do not kill my creature and do not trigger Vat.

Another thing Mimic Vat does, is say opponent sneaks in a Elvish Piper turn 3, because they played a turn 1 Bird, and then turn 2 they play a land, remove a Simian Spirit Guide for 1 red, tap bird for mana, then tap 2 lands for the 4 mana to sneak in a Elvish Piper. Then say turn 3 they tap 1 green, and put a BIG 10/10 out.

With Mimic Vat out, I can kill their 10/10 with 1 of 5 of either Wrecking Ball, Befoul combined, to make a 5 of, to destroy their BIG 10/10, then have that Trigger Vat, then use Vat to put out a 10/10 token copy of opponents killed 10/10, each turn.

All those things combined makes Mimic Vat a Viable, good, turns 5,6,7,8 play.

Mimic Vat also helps sustain land destruction by putting out Slime, Witness tokens, when, if run out of land destruction cards, that either destroy land(Slime Token ), or gets something from graveyard that destroys a land (Witness token).

But even tho Mimic Vat is awesome, not every creature combos well with Vat, and getting out a Vat, turns 2,3, instead of destroying a land, is bad. The perfect window for Vat is turns 5 to 9, and best targets are Slime, Witness, Exarch, anything else, like a different creature, or before or after turns 5 to 9 is not as good, not as ok.

Agree with what is said here. Nothing to add. Like +1

Oh and let's not forget the 2 Karplusan Forest, so it's 8 FETCH LANDS, and 9 DUAL LANDS for a 17 combined FETCH, DUAL lands, instead of 15. But hey what does that matter, 17 COMBINED FETCH AND DUAL LANDS IS SUPPOSEDLY HORRIBLY BAD, SUCKS, BAD, NOT, NOT, NOT

Made some tweaks, changes. Changed so that there is now 1 more FETCH land, for 8 FETCH lands instead of 7, so that with the 3 Darksteel Citadel, there is now 11 ways, instead of 10 ways, to combo with, Boom, on turns 1,2,3, and is almost impossible, and extremely improbable, that the Boom combo would supposedly be ruined by the supposedly bad mana base. And the changes make it so that with 8 FETCH LANDS, instead of 7, that it's almost impossible, extremely improbable that the deck would not destroy lands, not have the right mana to cast Molten Rain, Befoul, by, on turns 1,2,3,4, because the mana base was supposedly bad.

And the changes have made it so that with 2 basic lands in 1 forest, 1 mountain, instead of 1 mountain, the opponent would have to get out ALL 3,4 Ghost Quarters, and or ALL 3,4 Tectonic Edge lands, to ruin my nonbasic land base, due to my supposedly bad mana base, which would be almost IMPOSSIBLE, EXTREMELY IMPROBABLE to do, because of my supposedly bad mana base.

Yep with 8 FETCH LANDS, AND 7 DUAL LANDS, 15 LANDS COMBINED, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR SUCH A MANA BASE TO COMPETITIVELY RUN, SPLASH A 3RD COLOR, RUN CARDS WITH 2 RED, 2 BLACK, LIKE MOLTEN RAIN, BEFOUL, IN COMPETITIVE MODERN FORMAT PLAY, TOURNAMENTS, NOT, NOT, NOT, FALSE, FALSE, FALSE.

LMAO at such a false thought, notion.

Like I said it's pointless for you, or I to continue, because neither you, or I us going to convince the other. It's obvious that you have zero clue about how 14 lands, 7, FETCH LANDS, 7 Dual Lands, Makes it so that running a 3rd color is not a problem in Modern Format play. There plenty of 3 color, an or 2 color, 1 splash color Modern Format Decks, that have splashed cards with 2 mana symbols of the splashed color, splashed cards, that run just fine in competitive Modern Format play. And 10 4,5 cmc creature removal cards work fine, as long as use mana dorks to destroy their land turns 1,2,3, and then destroy their creatures turns, 3,4,5, etc. My deck does that. T h e deck consistently destroys lands turns 1,2,3, and destroys creatures turns 3,4,5,6, after destroy lands turns 1,2,3,4. And the deck rarely, hardly ever gets into a situation, where there is a wrecking Ball, Befoul, Molten Rain, etc, and not the right kind of mana to play it.

And Boom USUALLY works just fine on turns 1,2,3,4, destroying land. And on the rare times Boom doesn't do that, then Molten Rain, Stone Rain, or Wrecking Ball, or Befoul destroy a land on turns 1,2,3.

But be that as it is, I am never going to convince you of that, so it's pointless for us to continue.

The only thing that might stop me from playing this deck, is that 7 FETCH Lands, 7 Duel lands a r e EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. And with the high end price if the deck being about $1000, it's practically fighting fire with fire using a EXPENSIVE deck, to beat EXPENSIVE decks.

And tho yes I may be obsessed with beating EXPENSIVE decks because they are annoying, obnoxious, I still like beating extremely EXPENSIVE DECKS, and sending EXPENSIVE cards to the graveyard, and hearing the players of those EXPENSIVE decks whine, cry, complain about their EXPENSIVE cards going to the graveyard.

But be that as it is, I am never going to convince you, and you are not going to convince me.

So it's pointless to continue.