Yes this build also could be used to support Painter Grind. Replace Dreadnought with Painter's Servant and Stifle with Grindstone. But if you do so you go from a 1U mana combo (1 mana for Dreadnought and U for Stifle) to 5 color less mana combo (2 for P. Servant and 3 for Grindstone) I've made several Paintergrind decks here is a links to one of them Blue Core Deck Version 2 Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=200105 you may also want to check out my Torpor Dreadnought Deck Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=211081 It uses Torpor Orb instead of Stifle because it uses a Show and Tell core deck. This Show and Tell core could also work very well with Painter's Servant + Grindstone combo.
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Hi slightlyless, Glad you like the deck. I like your suggestion. Putting in 3 Fabricate and dropping to 3 Ashnod's Altar, 3 Genesis Chamber, and 1 Golem Artisan.
Hi byckg, Hmmm, interesting idea use Show and Tell to put into play Quicksilver amulet and then use Quicksliver amulet to put Emrakul when it is drawn. I guess you could add two Quicksilver and take out hmm.... maybe 2 daze. But I don't think I will because I really like having alot of counterspells to protect the casting of Show and Tell or to disrupt the opponent's actions. You also might like the even better the idea of adding Braids, Conjurer Adept instead of Quicksilver Amulet. I played around with the idea of adding Braids, Conjurer Adept and Blightsteel Colossus to this deck. (It is still a pretty good idea) Braids, Braids, Conjurer Adept At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player may put an artifact, creature, or land card from his or her hand into play. Try it and see if you like it. Thanks for for the suggestion.
Hi Cremesinus, Yeah, Eater of Days is an interesting idea. Feel free to add two and take out hmm.... maybe 2 daze. But I don't think I will because I really like having alot of counterspells to protect the casting of Show and Tell or to disrupt the opponent's actions.
Hi Verbal Ilusion, It really depends on the type of combo deck you are building and the play format you playing in. For example, There are Turn 0 combo decks. (You win before you even take your first turn) These tend to casual format (anything goes) most often relying on the use of the card Flash. Here's an example Turn 0 Win (60 cards) by unknownhunter763 Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=21087 There also many Vintage Decks that are capable of turn 1 wins due to great mana acceleration available through the use of Moxes, Black Lotus, and Tolarian Academy. To tell you the truth if a Vintage deck isn't able to least attempt to stop a possible turn 1 win I really feel its a poorly designed vintage deck. I even wrote a big long article about why I believe good decks should protect against turn 1 wins Using Game Theory Concepts for designing a MTG deck by Planestalker http://forums.mtgvault.com/showthread.php?t=3142 For me and probably many other Legacy players the general rule of thumb for a legacy combo deck should be able to go off consistantly by turn 3 if it is to be considered fairly good. But the really top tier combo decks in Legacy are not only capable of going off turn 1 or turn 2 they also have the ability protect themselves from disruption. Typically they protect against disruption either by doing something like Duress on turn 1 or have a set of zero casting cost counter spells in hand the most commonly used being Force of Will, Pact of Negation, and Mental Misstep and possibly Daze. Currently I feel the best Legacy Combo deck is TES, here is an example: TES: The Epic Storm (75 cards) by raggedjoe Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=190527 But the above rule of thumb is sort of meaningless as I'm sure there are some perfectly good legacy control/combo decks that may not really be able to off until past turn five or more. One of the best combo decks I've ever seen relies on verbal manipulation of the opponent. Its not tourney legal, but it sure is one of the best combo's I've ever seen. chiral chaos (100% guaranteed turn 1 win) (40 cards) by dknight27 Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=32755
Hi JaceTheMindsculptor, No I don't think that at all. All Torpor Orb does is prevent entering battlefield abilities from triggering. Read the the text of Torpor Orb carefully: "Creatures entering the battlefield don't cause abilities to trigger." It doesn't say Creatures entering the battlefield lose all abilities. Only entering battlefield abilities are lost. Emrakul doesn't have any entering the battefield abilities. Thus the following Emrakul abilities are uneffected by Torpor Orb and Show and Tell. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't be countered. Flying, protection from colored spells, annihilator 6 When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library. So Emrakul still kick ass after Show and Tell puts it and possibly Torpor orb into play. Though hopefully Torpor orb is already in play and Lightning Grease is put into play instead. A Lightning Greaved equipted Emrakul is just evil. Bwaa, ha, ha, ha haaaa!!!! As I stated before the only Emrakul ability affected is "When you cast Emrakul, take an extra turn after this one." This ability is not activated by Show and Tell because Emrakul is not cast by Show and Tell it is "put into play" And as thenameisdeath said early Emrukul will get the extra turn if it is hard cast from hand even with Torpor Orb in play. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Legendary Creature - Eldrazi 15/15, 15 (15) Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't be countered. When you cast Emrakul, take an extra turn after this one. Flying, protection from colored spells, annihilator 6 When Emrakul is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library.
Hi Thorai, Well I'll be darned, your right mana vault is banned in Legacy. Wonder why I thought it legal. Confusion with Grim Monolith perhaps in my mind. Have taken out Mana Vault and put in Cyrstal Vein instead. Thanks for the catch.
Hi SavageTheCabbage, Glad you like the deck. Post a link to your Torpor Elemental deck so I and others can look and comment on it.
Hi LurkerDark, Of course your right Artificer's intuition isn't able to search for Torpor Orb. The Artificer's Intuition is to search for the Phyrexian Dreadnaught, Mana Vault, or possible Lightning Greaves. The Artificer's Intuition just increases the chances of helping complete the combo by finding the Phyrexian Dreadnought not the Torpor Orb. Thanks for asking for clarification of my comment, my statement was misleading.
Hey surewhynot, This is my type of deck! Silly stupid efficient combo. If you don't mind making it legacy legal by adding couple Crucible of Worlds, Mana Bond (perhaps), and Chalice of the Void (for some counter spell protection) I think you'll end up with a pretty good lands deck. Just the sort of deck that you've written you sort of hate to go against with your Extraction decks. Its sort of funny now you're making decks to compete against yourself.
Hi MaxvJad, Hmm, your comment is too short for me to fully understand what you're trying to say. 1. Are you asking does Stifle + Dreadnought equal a win? Well obviously no. It just makes a 12/12 creature for just 1U mana which is nice but it is very vulnerable thus the Lightning Greaves in the deck to give it shroud and haste. 2. Perhaps you are suggesting adding Stifle to the deck instead of Torpor Orb? Well, but I put in Torpor Orb instead Stifle for several reasons. The explaination for why Torpor Orb is being used instead of Stifle can be found in some of my previous reply posts for this deck. Read them and then tell me if my reasoning is wrong. 3. Lastly, perhaps you are suggesting adding Stifle to add redundancy to the Torpor Orb. That is an interesting idea, but just what exactly would you suggest I take out to substitute Stifle instead without seriously weaking the deck? Yes, Stifle + Phyrexian Dreadnought is a nice combo so is Trickbind + Phyrexian Dreadnought. In fact, there is a very nice deck type called Stiflenought which when I first learn of these combos I quickly made my own version which I called. Tricky Phyrexian Dreadnought http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=145921 While Stiflenought decks very greatly resemble this Torpornought deck. This deck has a couple new tricks up its sleave due to Show and Tell and perhaps is even superior to my Tricky Phyrexian Dreadnought deck. So thanks for the comment. And please feel free to make your comments longer so I can more clearly understand what you are trying to convey.
Hi ClockworkCopper, Yes, I did investigate boomerang like cards. In the first version of the deck I put in 4 Into the Roil instead of Torpor Orb and had no mana vaults and only had 2 Standstill and put in 4 Stifles. The deck didn't play as well because the Phyrexian Dreadnaught combo didn't hit as fequently because the Standstill draw didn't happen as frequently. Also the Stifle tends to be held in hand until you get a Dreadnaught and at least one Counterspell in hand. Whereas, you can pretty much drop a Torpor Orb any time and rarely does it draw a counter or any removal in the first game because the opponent doesn't know its importance in the deck. Also I found I rarely had the extra mana for kicking Into the Roil after playing Show and Tell and while it was of some some use to tell you the truth Into the Roil was most often used as Force of Will fodder; not really the threat level you want for any of your cards in a blue deck. Boomrang's bounce anything ability makes it technically a better card than either Into the Roil or Unsummon. But I have a personal preferance to choosing 1U over UU in a non-pure Island deck. Yes, I really prefer Mana Leak over Counterspell in a non-pure Island deck. Still, even in a pure island contol deck I'd probably go with 4 Force of Will, 4 Mental Misstep, 4 Daze, and 4 Spell Pierce (I prefer it over Spell Snag). It very weird to say but Counterspell is no longer the power card it was in Blue decks. That's almost as strange as saying Dark Ritual is no longer a power card in Black decks (which is most certainly is not the case yet) Tinkers obviously would be in this deck if wasn't that I'm trying to keep this deck Legacy legal. Feel free to put in Blightsteel Colossus instead of Emrakul if you're playing with Tinker's it just makes good sense. The only reason I'm playing Emrakul is because I'm really trying make new innovative type of Show and Tell deck without resorting to Hive Mind and Pact of Negation. And the whole thought of bringing into play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn with Lightning rleaves and a Standstill just makes me want to breakout in a long loud bout of evil laughter. I even briefly considered putting in 4 Decree of Silence instead 4 Standstill and 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All instead of 2 Mana Vault. And I still might do it if this deck is used in a group game. Just imagine casting Show and Tell and bringing into play Emrakul, The Aeons Torn with Lightning Greaves, Decree of Silence, and Boseiju, Who Shelters All Buuwaah, Ha, Ha, Ha, Haaaaaa!!!!!!! Yea, I know Hive Mind and Pact of Negation woul kill all my opponents faster but just the thought of all the pain and suffering Emrakul could inflict in a group game with the above combo is just makes me breakout in a evil grin ;-))
Yes, I had thought about Trinket Mage but it's three converted mana just didn't feel good I'm not even happy with artificer's intuition 2 mana. Instead I played around with the idea of adding more white mana sources (there already are 4 lotus petals) for Enlightened tutor to back (Mystical Tutor, Demonic Tutor and Vampiric are banned in Legacy). Still, the Trinket Mage could work with Show and Tell to fetch the Phyrexian Dreadnought as long as I don't also put Torpor Orb into play with Show and Tell. Actually, what I really took a long look at was adding either Dizzy Spell, Muddle the Mixture, and Drift of Phantasms as possble fetch spells using their transmute abilities. In fact, Drift of Phastasms, is a pretty darn good replacement for Artificer's Intuition if you want to emphasis the Show and Tell combo over the Phyrexian Dreadnought + Torpor Orb comb. And Muddle the Mixture isn't to bad a replacement for Lightning Gleaves if you really want to up the counterspell available in the deck. I did play around with fetch lands and even adding the land Boseiju, Who Shelters All. But I found I didn't like all the pain these lands handed out. Against good burn or aggro decks you really have to have gone off by turn 5 or you're more than likely dead. With all the fetch lands and Gitaxian Probe your suggesting that clock becomes more you only have 4 turns to go off and that just is to little time for this deck I feel. And realy I don't think you need to add the fetch lands and the Gitaxian Probe because of the power of Standstill in this deck. Standstill is just such an amazing card in this deck. It can help provide the time you need to find the combo you want if the opponent doesn't cast to break the enchantment. Or it can help you gain the cards you need if the opponent does break the enchantment; which is most like what the opponent will do. Bringing in Standstill with Emrakul using Show and Tell is more than likely game over. Because Standstill is so good I have even played around with adding Force Field and Spellbook to this deck. Try it you might like it. Taking out Lightening Gleaves and Mana Vault for 2 Force Field and 2 Spell Book might be one way to go. Thanks for your suggestions. Even if I really didn't take any. I appreciate the chance to explain why I made the choices I did for this deck. Hopefully, you'll agree with my reseasoning and learn from it.
Glad you like this kind of thing WhiteAndBlueTheyKillYou, By this kind are thing are you referring to Show and Tell decks , Phyrexian Dreadnaught decks, or combo decks in general? Because after looking at your decks I noticed that you are alot like me always experimenting with killer combo decks. Have you been increasingly finding you are thinking more about the problem of Surgical Extraction than cards like Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Mind Break Trap, and Pact of Negation? Because if you have I'd sure like to hear what you've come up with against extraction. Inquisition of Kozilek + Surgical Extraction is a pain to work around.
Hi IamAlphaGeek, Even more sadly, even without the orb, Emrakul won't give an extra turn when brought into play by Show and Tell. Because that ability only happens when Emrakul is cast. "When you cast Emrakul, take an extra turn after this one." And yes, Torpor Orb is better than Stifle in this type of deck because it prevents creatures like Gatekeeper of Malakir, Acidic Slime, etc.... from activating when brought into play by Show and Tell. And also you're more likely to have Torpor Orb in play (possibly due to Artificer's Intuition) than have a Stifle (deck doesn't have a search card for instant and sorceries) and open blue mana after playing Show and Tell.
Well surewhynot, It took me longer that I thought it would to meet your challenge but I made an Orb deck without Changelings. t took me longer that I thought it would to meet your challenge but I made an Orb deck with a couple tricks up its sleeves. It's a prison deck that can make infinite mana. Here's the link http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=209269
Congradulations surewhynot on 150 deck. Current Favorite Card Show and Tell - that it is not banned or restricted in Vintage and Legacy is amazing. Its like green's Eureka but costs one mana less and because it is blue can be backed up by counterspells thus leading to the combo Show and Tell + Hivemind + Pact of Negation. This combo alone may lead to Show and Tell's eventual banning or restriction. But till that happens I'm going to abuse the hell out Show and Tell. 1. Is this really your 150 deck at the Vault? (I'd of thought you'd done more.) I must of done over 150 decks about 2 months ago but I decided to remove almost all my decks that didn't have comments and that weeded me back down to below 100 decks. 2. I'm big on what I call core deck design. Making decks with a core set of cards that really work well together then just tacking on a few more cards that typically are the kill cards for the deck. (See my Fun Decks and Blue and Black Core decks for examples.) If you were to use core deck design what would be the core cards for a legacy and standard extractor decks? 3. Sliver tribe is probably the strongest tribe in Magic. What would you say is the weakest tribe? (I'll go make a deck based on your choose immediately) 4. I love crazy almost silly combos (Treasure Hunt + Mana bond for example) . I know you love bitterbomb but what was the funniest combo you ever saw or played? 5. I want to make a Legacy test deck suite (sort of like your stores 7 decks) what do you think is Best Legacy Aggro deck:? Best Legacy Control Deck? Best Legacy Combo Deck? Thanks again for all your support of MTG Vault And may you always make your own good luck, Planestalker
Animate + Eradicate is brilliant !!!! Liquimetal Coating + Splinter is also fun Enchanted Evening + Scour is going to be my next deck combo!!!! Thanks for leading me to my next killer combo idea.
Thanks for the suggestion. Have modified deck to support New Phyrexia Cards by adding Ivory Crane Netsuke. Dropped Pact of Negation and Mindbreak Trap to sideboard and added Capsize and Whispers of the Muse at by dropping 1 each of Counterspell and Boomerang. Lastly, dropped Nexus land in favor of adding Morphling. What do you think of the changes?
Hi cho_kai, Thanks for the suggestions. Made changes and adding another way to win with Glimpse of Nature and Grapeshot. Also added Last Word to protect casting of Grapeshot or Exsanguinate for win.
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