kmk888

Something that may help for new players is the site http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Default.aspx. It's the magic main page, and has a section for new players. Another personal favorite is dailymtg.com. It's a great site.

That's what I was going to say. It should be somewhere along the lines of 13 Plains 9 Forest.

Beautiful.

Well this half of the deck demonstrates he has the basics of legacy already down

Absolutely. And I like Path of Bravery, so I'm by no means offended. The list looks even tighter now, nice job.

One thing that you may hear from other Standard players (it occurred to me when I saw the deck) is that it should have 4 Jace, AoT. But even though he's amazing, he's not really in the same focus as this deck. I don't think you need him, particularly when you pack Ephara for the card draw and several Sphinx's Revelations for the top end. Another thing I've thought of is that you're going to have some trouble if you get Supreme Verdicted. But I'm not really sure how to fix that issue other than to just rebuild your board from your freshly drawn cards. Something worth considering.

The top end of your curve is pretty high, I feel like there is some potential to just lose to red decks. Without Supreme Verdict the deck is just much weaker to that... But the lifegain somewhat makes up for it. Although I would like to see some more point removal because you don't have Verdicts. An okay replacement might be Cyclonic Rift; it can keep you alive when you just need to slow the game and it doubles as almost a one sided boardwipe later.

To adjust the top end of the deck a little I would say mainly more Epharas and less Heliods. She's better in pretty much every way, and in practice only one devotion more. I doubt you actually activate Heliod that much anyways with so many other goodies, and although Vigilance is good, drawing cards is probably better. I would also probably only play 3 Elspeths, they aren't as good in multiples.

My recommendation is -2 Heliod +2 Ephara -1 Elspeth -1 Archangel +2 Cyclonic Rift

But the deck is already really nice, so whatever. Well done! I like the way you've kind of blurred the lines between midrange and control.

I agree. Stale. Since we're done arguing, I'll just be off to "fist my grandma" then

So we were actually saying the same thing, just disagreeing on the degree to which the body mattered.

I will maintain that people would never play the effect for UU as an instant because that's technically negative card advantage. Although in practice it doesn't feel this way, Vendilion Clique is actually neutral card advantage and without the body it's you trading one of your cards to potentially make their hand in worse shape. That's not even close to the same thing in my book

So, based on your phrasing, you admit that although instant speed hand hate is the most important part, there are other "relevant" parts of the card

No seriously by your argument why is Lurking Informant not $50+? What you're talking about is the ability to nullify a draw, or fateseal. That's what Informant does. It can do so repeatedly, and with less mana specificity. Can you give me a civil answer to that question?

What about Esper Charm? Piracy Charm? Funeral Charm?

I agree that the ability is the most important part. It definitely is. You are right. But if it was LITERALLY the only thing that mattered on the card, wouldn't the other cards I mentioned would be played instead?

Also did you literally downvote every comment I put on this thread, regardless of whether it was related? You're pretty salty dude

By your argument a card like Lurking Informant is actually better than Clique, since it can produce an almost identical effect multiple times. Last time I checked that card is pennies. As with many great cards, it is no one feature of the card that makes it great. Clique is a fairy, a flash blocker, a draw step nullifier, and an evasive 3 damage. It's a beautiful thing. But the ETB effect alone for UU is good but not great. Try again.

Yes, but it's not worth much without the body. UU to discard and draw? Not good enough.

Not a generally bad idea, but Clique would die with a Heartless Summoning active.

The second one. The card is 500% necessary and if the opponent is smart they Abrupt Decay it. Drawing dead Heartless Summonings is something you have to live with.

Oh whoops that's actually the card I was talking about. I don't know where I got "Phyrexian Reclaimer"

As a huge fan of Heartless Summoning decks, +1. But also there are some really cool things you can do with this engine that you may not know about. The first is that with Heartless Summoning and Havengul Lich, you can throw down Perilous Myr for unlimited Shocks at sorcery speed. Another really fantastic thing is that (even without the Lich) Phyrexian Reclaimers are fantastic in this set up. With the Lich they're ridiculous, and if you get two of them they form an infinite loop. This is a good reason to include something like Falkenrath Noble, which would not be a bad inclusion anyways. Yet another cool thing is that Priest of Urabrask with Heartless Summoning and Havengul Lich is unlimited red mana, but you don't have that much to use it on so that little combo would probably be shelved for this deck. Mulldrifter would be a HUGE draw engine here, letting you infinitely draw 2 cards for 1u at sorcery speed. Oh and Solemn Simulacrum is an automatic 4 of, he's just value off the chart.

You're right about Scourge being able to eat anything that would die anyways, but you may have missed Nylea. She's already going to give everything trample.

If you put blue in, Prime Speaker Zegana would be great in this. Master Biomancer certainly wouldn't be bad either, and Bioshift would be great (even if it was only one)

Absolutely. And here I was thinking that fireballs were a lackluster finisher for the deck. Hellkite Tyrant, now that's a bomb.

If you don't add Ancient Grudge I'll cry