Bellz76

You need Dark Deal with Waste Not... and at least 22 land for this build...

Yeah, I think it's tough to build a U\B control deck and not just go ahead and build THE u\b control deck that's running around. But you are correct- this is a.... unique speed midrange deck. I did some main deck tweaks- I did add 2 Bile Blight, and also added the Risen Executioner. I think I'll have more of each in the board. That should help with some survive-ability, as well as a bit more pressure. Executioner is a really good fit since you can mill him away or pitch him and still recur him, and he's a pretty hard hitter.

And I think it's a coin flip with Murderous Cut and Ultimate Price. The extra mana vs the restriction. It might be that the Price is better than the BB too. I do agree that Negate will be the counter to run in the board.

Thanks for taking the time and leaving your comments! I certainly appreciate that. Here are my thoughts about your suggestions:

I suspected Torrent was sub par, but hadn't had the chance to test him... and the Fascination is marginal at best. That I have played, and I have used it a couple times w\ the Unraveler in play with some success, and occasionally milled away a card they just kept via a scry effect. But I agree- those are not strong enough reasons to run the card.

The Treasure Cruise has been good though. Leaving a single U up has allowed me to have an early Dark Deal (with or w\o the Waste Not) and then go right into the Cruise. And with the Skulker out is nuts. And whereas the single B discard spells do let you cherry pick, you're getting a 2-for-1 plus cards for delve with the Secret. Taking them out also takes away an enabler for Waste Not.

The Unraveler fits because of the Dark Deal, Sign in Blood, and Fascination (although I'm prob pulling the latter). And of course if you look at it as an overpriced Underworld Dreams that dies to creature removal it's very underwhelming- you could even add in there it dies to enchantment removal as well to really top it all off. But if you looked at it as a 3\4 beater that survives most cheap burn, gives you inevitability, as well preventing a planswalker from ticking up toward their ultimate (or at all really) for 3B... I mean, any "amazing" creature can always be trumped by "meh- it dies to removal"

Yes, adding the Dig would require a few more blue sources, but I've found that Dig typically favors the control deck (mostly) and the Cruise for the more aggressive- which makes sense in your suggestions since your changes are control based. 26 land is the number for control, Dig is control, counterspell leans toward control. The problem with switching up the deck in the direction that you're going is that there'd be no reason for this to play Waste Not- otherwise it would just be a weaker version of the U\B control that's so strong right now. That's a fine deck, but Waste Not doesn't fit in it.

I had thought about running Empty the Pits, but at the time Bile Blight was everywhere. Also, I don't tend to keep too many cards in the yard with as much delve as is already in the deck. That's when I made the switch to Tasigur. I've played a T3 Skulker into a T4 Dark Deal that then gave me a Tasigur for B. So I have a 6\6 Skulker and a 4\5 Tasigur on T4. And Ashiok is really good, but without the cheap removal, it's tough to keep her alive. And my 3 slot is currently flooded. And I do understand that with the changes you suggested, the removal would be available, but again, I'm not trying to build U\B control. And if you think about it- with Counterspell backup, Fate Unraveler can take over a game... well, any card really- when you're stopping your opponent from playing.

But as for the sideboard- yes- the Stain the Mind a bit much and are really just placeholders. All those cards are just placeholders currently. I'm not sure what would be a good sideboard for this deck- thus the ask for help :-)

I do have this deck on Tappedout.net and this is the list of potential Sideboard cards I've been thinking about:

Bile Blight
Crux of Fate
Disdainful Stroke
Drown in Sorrow
Duress
Jorubai Murk Lurker
Negate
Neutralizing Blast
Profaner of the Dead
Self-Inflicted Wound
Ultimate Price

Thanks again for the comments!

Yeah, I think that's a good idea... and I'm discovering that the Fascination is only so-so as well..... so I could have 4 slots available with those 2 and the Torrents... maybe 4 Dissolve?

Sorry I'm late to this party! I love the Dark Deal\ Waste Not combo. I have my own build of this that's a little bit different.

I run a bit more discard, and a couple other cards that make Dark Deal better when you don't have the Waste Not. We obviously want to live the dream of T2 Waste Not into T3 Dark Deal, however, a T3 Rakshasa's Secret is also really good too. 2 triggers of Waste Not and fuel for delve is serious card advantage. It's also another option to fire off after you Dark Deal w\ Waste Not and get the extra mana- 2 more cards and 2 more triggers.... you just can't recover from that.

I also like Fate Unraveler a lot. Good by herself, she also excels when a Deal is cast because now your opponent is forced to draw X cards. Her 4 toughness also keeps her out of most cheap burn range. Although susceptible to enchantment removal, that's one less spell they can aim at your Waste Not.

Here is the link to my build- please don't think I'm deck-bombing a top deck- that's not my intent. I really enjoy the deck, and if there's a better way to build, or sideboard, that's my goal. Also, my description includes all my thoughts on the cards (see Fate Unraveler) so as to not write a book here.

http://www.mtgvault.com/bellz76/decks/ub-waste-not/

I'm having a tough time with the sideboard though. Agro decks will give this deck fits, so I imagine cards like Drown in Sorrow for the red decks is a start. Although I did have the same thought you did about the switch-a-roo after boarding. Having the sideboard be super creature heavy or super control heavy. Take out the discard package for another angle of attack... Not sure which way would work, but it's worth looking into.

More updates- added Hero's Blade for some survive-ability for Alesha, and King Macar as an experiment- more removal and also carries the Hero's Blade.

Swapped out the Sultai Flayers for 2 Dictate of Erebos

Oh yeah- I switched out the Primadox for the Sabertooth- just forgot to update the description.

Did some minor tweaking- switched out the 2 Sibsig Host for 2 Mogis's Marauder and took out the 3 Grave Strength for 3 Outpost Siege.

I sure did! Actually, I hadn't seen the Sight card, but that's ok :-) I REALLY like Assault Formation here. It really works here. It makes the Disowned Ancestor a beater at any time- Not just a sac target late game, but a 4 power beater for 1 mana... oh, it's so nice. Turn 1 Ancestor, Turn 2 Assault Formation swing for 4! LOL That's a turn faster than the Kin-tree play on 2 and swing on 3. I may have to bump the Ancestor count back up to 4...

I do want to try and get the Dictates back in, but there isn't much space....

umm.... I don't think that's correct with the Shaman.... it says "that creature gains +2\+2"... I don't think you can stack it like that.

Also would be something if you had the Dragonlord Kolaghan in play with the Shaman, and then Secure the Wastes for X, each warrior gets +2\+2 and haste.... not too shabby

Ok, why all the tokens? They don't seem to fit your dash theme. And if you want to keep the tokens, why aren't you running Purphoros? With so many creatures entering the battlefield every turn, he should be a perfect fit. Esp with the Secure The Wastes.... And what about Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury? You end of turn Secure The Wastes for 5 or 6 or whatever, and then dash in Kolaghan, the Storms Fury and swing for 15-17 damage... You switch this into a bit of a warrior theme and run Chief of the Edge\ Warrior's Spoils and make all those 1\1's into 2\1's.... or 3\1's with Kolaghan. And Kolaghan Forerunners? With so many tokens out, he's sure to be huge.

And it combo's really well with the Qarsi Sadist... ugh- that could get really ugly really quick. Hmm..... might need to make some more tweaks

Speaking of Erebos and guys in and out of play... I was toying with the idea of Dictate of Erebos. Maybe as a 2 of... helps devotion, punishes opponents removal... idk. Seems a little expensive, but could be really strong.

I've switched out the Grave Strength to try 3 Outpost Siege in my fish-bowling... they seem.... ok so far. If you land one early, you play it for the card advantage, if you hit it mid to late, you stick the Dragons for the extra reach.

Purphoros is VERY interesting. There's no way to activate him- not enough devotion to red..... BUT he'd basically be a shock machine w\ each creature coming into play... Bloodsoaked Champion- 2 damage... recur the Champion... 2 damage. Pitch a zombie to the Stockpile- 2 damage. Return a creature to play with Alesha- 2 damage. And then you have the Tymaret cycle with the Stockpile of drawing\ zombie into play, sacrificing the zombie to recur, and repeat... maybe he takes a 2 of spot.

Yeah, I was thinking about Ultimate Price too... there's just so many good multi-colored monsters.... ugh... and this deck does need to delve responsibly... grumble.

I think the Qarsi Sadist will make the cut. I'm not sure about which spot yet, but recurring him seems really good.

And I'm sorry, I know you like him, but I just don't see the merit of the Reveler. I know you don't like the Host (and I'm on the fence myself), but I rarely hard-cast the Host, and he gives me immediate returns. I don't need to wait for him to hit the yard... and he's a bigger blocker. He's still probably on the way out, but I still think he's better than the Reveler.

I really like Outpost Siege, but do you think it fits in here? Is this deck aggressive enough? I mean do you think there are enough creatures dying to warrant a spot? Sure, it combo's really well with Tyramet making his damage 3 instead of 2... and if the Qarsi Sadist makes the list, he helps as well... but I think you only play the Dragon mode when you're ahead... every other time it's better with Khans for the card advantage...

Yeah, Roast is really strong. But is it better than Murderous Cut? This deck perpetually has cards in the yard...

I do like Collateral Damage, and getting value for a creature about to die is a good thing too, and it's never a bad thing to chump block with a zombie and then sack it for the 3, or block w\ Alesha, first strike damage and then Collateral Damage, but what do you swap out for it? And is that what this deck wants to use? Right now Lightning Strike isn't well positioned, so does the 1 mana reduction but sac a creature make the 3 damage from Collateral Damage any different?

I like the Whip, but only for it's devotion. I think it feels kinda clunkie in this build... the deck does want to be aggressive, and I'm not sure the whip provides that.

So here's where I am- I think I need to replace the Spiteful Returned, probably the Sibsig Host..... and maybe the Grave Strength. Ugh- it's just tough because when I look at the Spiteful Returned, they don't play nice with Alesha's ability since when they are added to combat, they don't trigger the 2 life loss... but they do work well by themselves as a 2 drop, as a zombie to be discarded, and as a bestow (esp on Alesha)... I think I'll table that decision for now. The Host is just good for the synergy of the deck... big blocker, zombie, puts more cards in the yard... and the Grave Strength is hit or miss... early game (say turn 2 targeting a Bloodsoaked Champion) it could be decent or it could be junk... but late game it makes anything a monster... but I have no creature with a "flying" or "trample" keyword to abuse\ take advantage of that.

Hmm... I might be back on the Outpost Siege... that may warrant some testing.

Thanks for the response. Here are my thoughts on some of the card interactions that you're looking to make:

I think the Bitter Revelations are going to be too expensive. They certainly do what we're looking to do by both adding cards to the yard and filling our hand, but 4 cmc might be too much. Ideally on turn 4 (with a turn 3 Alesha) you want to be able to have BB available to activate Alesha- If you hit a T2 Stockpile into T3 Alesha, you'll have a discard outlet for 1B and ideally BB available to grab whatever you pitch. If you don't have the T2 Stockpile, you can still follow a T3 Alesha with a T4 Tormenting Voice and have the BB left for the discarded creature. Additionally, not having to use 4 mana at once (too often) allows for a TON of interactions with Tymaret. Sac, return, discard etc...

The Host are def one of the cards on the chopping block. They might be better in the board. Obviously they are a 2 power zombie that works with the Stockpile and Alesha, and toss some more cards in the yard, but the added bonus of 6 toughness also blocks Siege Rhino all day. Not every deck runs the Rhino, so maybe in the board- but I don't know about the Reveler. I did look at him- and he certainly hits the zombie under 2 power resume', but he has to die to fuel the yard and you might get 1 block out of him... granted, we probably want him to die, and we do have ways to do that ourselves, but I feel like he doesn't do enough without the enablers. Does that makes sense?

And the Grave Strength are tricky in this build. I like to target Alesha with them to help get her out of Wild Slash\ Magma Jet range, and try to keep her alive in combat. Yes, it puts a few more cards in the yard, but I think she needs the counters. Since the only way to get her back is the Palace Siege (or drawing a new one), I think trying to keep her alive is paramount.

I do like the Collateral Damage, and the font isn't a bad idea either... What do you think that instead of Collateral Damage, how about the Qarsi Sadist? I know he doesn't target opponent creatures, but he does give the 4 point life swing, and allows us to get other creatures on the board to the yard (or just putting himself there for recursion)? And instead of the Font, what do you think of the Soul of Innistrad? He does nothing for Alesha, but can refill the hand with creatures.....

I like the Dictates- a lot, but what did you take out? Maybe the Flayers?

Think DTK is going to give this deck a boost- going to switch out the 2 Dictates and the 1 main Reclamation Sage for 3 Assault Formation.

Kevin from Rogue Deck builder.com has several videos of his version of the deck... more of the agro version than this control build of mine. Works really well.