dknight27

This one will take some processing. Are you attached to the idea of a 5 color?

I've been tinkering with a couple ideas for builds like this. Jace, vryn's prodigy seems a natural fit, and perhaps a copy or 2 of trinket mage. Any thoughts?

Lantern Control is one of the most interesting concepts in magic I've seen in years. Such a creative idea right?
Personally I would like to see some mainboarded interaction like abrupt decay or fatal push, but other than that this looks solid.

I agree with everything everyone is saying, which is a shame. I was hoping the little guy would be able to make a push into modern play, but there seem to be more viable options in his slot in most circumstances.

Maybe a deck that doesn't use blue but still want's the etb damage and field presence? It's a hope

The big problems I see in here are: the lopsided curve, the land choices and amount, and a couple unnecessary decision spots.

66% of this deck are 2 drops, so you will absolutely be choked on that number between the 3rd and 4th land drop, and will eat mulligans all day with a single land in the opener.

What this deck basically wants to do is

turn 1- drop a land and a critter
turn 2- drop a land and a critter or removal option and swing
turn 3- stop worrying about lands for a while and repeat step 2

There are some wonderful 1 drops that would fit in here anyway, such as monastery swiftspear, rift bolt, vexing devil, goblin guide, etc. If you drop the massive 2 drop problem into some more 1 drops, you will have a much faster and more consistent deck.




The land choices are pretty basic (I assume this deck is on a budget, so no fetch lands or fast lands), but wind-scarred crag has absolutely got to go as it will stall you out either turn 1 or 2, denying this deck the tempo it needs to live. I like the idea of sunhome fortress, but unfortunately its going to be useless until the late middle/end game, and eats a TON of land mana (5 including itself), and as it doesn't help you get the white/red you need I would consider dropping it altogether. If this deck gets to the late middle/end game and needs that land to win, its sort of already failed at its job. Better to have some non-land options that are cheap and good when topdecked.

In general I would consider dropping the lands to 21 total, as this deck hits full function at 3 lands and everything after that is just tempo.





The couple underpowered choices I see are dangerous wager and fiend hunter.

Dangerous wager is an extremely conditional card (has to be topdecked to be of any use) that only nets you +1 card advantage under optimal conditions. What's worse, its a brick in the opening hand, which this deck can't afford as the first few turns are vital (this deck needs tempo to survive). My advice would be to drop both of them in favor of more predictable and less conditional advantage.

Fiend hunter is semi-conditional removal that realistically doesn't net you enough benefit as its can only swing for 1 per turn and is pretty easy to remove (dies to 3 damage). A better fit for this deck would be viashino pyromancer, which SORT OF does the same thing as fiend hunter, but cheaper, with better damage output and optional face damage on entry for a bleeding effect. I would consider maxing those suckers out.





My last consideration would be to splash 1 or 2 copies of something decently large like goblin dark-dwellers which you would more than likely topdeck, blast it in and copy a bolt to the face or to remove a problem, then go to work with the 4/4 menace.





Just my thoughts friend, not trying to put you or the deck down.

Am I the only one out there that thinks arcades is way too strong of a new card to be making? 4 mana 3/5 flyer with vigilance is good on its own, so lets give it a crazy card advantage gobbler and a way for 2 drop 4/4 to smash your face off.

I love the idea you've got going here, but the 18 lands, especially with 4 tapped ones and 2 colorless producers, seems like it could draw into quite a few mulligans and hurt the development of the build more than it does turbocharge the card advantage.

In order to field and equip either of your ping-er-facts, you need either 3 or 4 mana plus the critter in play, for a spread between 4 to 6 mana. With 18 lands and no acceleration, that's decently hard to pull off in a timely manner. I know you have some late/middle game accel for mana (stronghold, cryptghast), but both of those are conditional on other lands (namely swamps (of which you are currently only running 12)), and neither will help you get off the ground.

Ideally this deck wants the do the following:

turn 1- drop a swamp, hit a 1-drop discard that says "no to opponent's interaction or production"

turn 2- drop a swamp, drop a critter and/or a ping-er-fact.

turn 3- drop a swamp, equip and go to work



That's the most efficient and safe method this deck want's to hit, and it almost never will see anything like this with the way you've structured the lands and how much mana the rest of the decks needs to keep rolling.

I would consider upping the lands to 21 total with some fetch lands (bloodstained mire, etc) so you have a flush chance of no mulligans, good acceleration, and the deck will still be thinned out once you exit the middle so you won't be topdecking lands.

Also, maybe consider some alternate sources of tap guys, just to kick around the idea. Indulgent aristocrat, pharika's chosen, sanitarium skeleton, vempire cutthroat, vampire neonate, stuff like that. Might take away the necessity for running basilisk collar which is a hassle as you can't use it to generate tap damage, but just to augment tap damage, so its SUPER conditional (needs a critter, ping-er-fact, and itself (so at least 7 mana between 3 cards).

I know this deck wants opponent to bleed all day long, but ive never had much success with dash hopes, even in a build like this. I would trade 5 life all day to be at +1 card advantage and +1 tempo on opponent, especially since this deck has only conditional mainboarded field interaction.



Just my thoughts, not trying to put the deck down. I love the synergy you get with cards like lookout and confidant in here.

This looks fantastic. Grixis control might end up being my favorite build in modern. I only see a couple potential problems in here.

4 cryptics with 24 lands (4 of which are field of ruin) seems like it could be a problem, as you have a decent chance of grabbing 1 in the opening hand and watching it sit like a brick for 10 turns before you grab your 3 blue producers. Personally I would prefer to run 1 jace, vryns prodigy and 3 cryptics over 4 cryptics in this build, but that's me.

You have 13 mainboarded creature hate spells, which is good enough to not worry about some of the "go either way" counters like mana leak or spell snare, both of which do much better when in higher concentration. Running 1 copy of each means both are likely to be top decked rather than seen in the opening or middle, and when opponent has lots of mana available both cards lose effectiveness. I would consider running another countersquall over the mana leak and perhaps a fatal push or opt over the spell snare.

I also don't see a watery grave, which would be a good rounding out of the lands.


Just my thoughts, seems like an excellent build. Good work.

I would tend to agree in general, but in this build I was trying to fuse a regular reactive control mechanic with the land/grave interaction, so the fewer critters and non-control instants the better, then win with man lands and/or recurring gearhulks.

For the suggestions you propose, with which I absolutely agree, I would use in a deck like this:

https://www.mtgvault.com/dknight27/decks/modern-greenhouse-3/

Where its a more active control than a reactive one.

Strange that they decided to release jace and bloodbraid onto modern and pulled probe and deathrite from legacy

It's a shame alright

I gotta tell you, I love what is going on here. I've been theorizing with chittering rats for a while now trying to fit it into an existing dynamic or create a new one that can use it.

I see a couple things that might be worth considering in here. 1 copy of mana leak seems useless to me as the math on drawing it when it is potent is very poor. Illusionist's stratagem might be worth considering over ghostly flicker as you don't seem to have a big problem with mana here and it can give you some good card advantage so the 1 more mana to cast might be worth the draw. Jace, vryn's prodigy seems like a natural in here as you are already low on 2 drops and it helps you with unnecessary cards on the back end like multiple copies of aether vial, redundant lands, or discard outlets when opponent has no hand.

I'm not that big a fan of the twilight mire-esk lands as they can mess up your 1 drops on turn 1 so you might be eating a tempo or a mulligan. 1 more of the fast lands each would probably be better.

I'm also seeing a good chance to fit in some 1 drop tactical controls like sleight of hand, serum visions, etc. Right now you've got 6 1-drop dicards controls, 4 aether vials, for 10 consistent 1 drop accuracy cards. Add in some blue tactical and you are almost guaranteed to have a turn 1 boost that is basically never a dead drop anyway.

Just my thoughts. I love what you are going for here. Keep it up

For an "as is" built, this looks mighty solid. I love ojutai's command to grab back snap and stoneforge, sun titan to grab back whatever you need, I'm surprised to see no fetch lands, but maybe you are running short.

Nice job

Your lands might need a bit of work here friend

Gotcha. that should be enough to work with. From what I'm gathering here, this is a proactive control deck that wants to hit with master of cruelties then use a mechanic to hit the 1 damage to finish em off.
The major problem with this though is that the two parts of the build contradict each other in every other situation but a fielded and connected master of cruelties. If you don't connect a master of cruelties, you will have a hard time dropping opponent to 0, and if you do field a master later in the game, any damage you've dealt until that point is useless. So, in order to make the system you've set up here really work, you have to minimize the finishing damage to the point that you can have it when you want it, but not have it clog the way to fielding your master and controlling stuff till then.

The first thing to fix this that comes to mind is trimming the creature presence and not relying on keeping a creature alive for 2 turn cycles (master doesn't let others attack, so you need 2 turns to win with combat damage). A good way around this is with manlands like blinkmoth nexus and creeping tar pit. They keep your land count at the accelerated level and act as the final push that are immune to sorceries (your own damnations, etc). As it is, 25 lands without any man lands or tactical lands (field of ruin, ghost quarter), is too high. Any way you slice it, decks like this aren't going to win quickly, so 25 lands isn't going to get you to a win condition any faster than 23 lands (including a healthy dose of man lands). I would give serious consideration to dropping the temples altogether. They are too slow and give less benefit than a man land, as noted above. Some polluted delta's would go a long was as well.

2 copies of blightning is also a bad balance in a build like this. The advantage of blightning is to retain card advantage while disrupting opponent's tempo and draining their life, and as stated above we don't need it to drain life BEFORE you make the master hit, as its wasted damage. So, a card that does something similar that isn't a possible (and probable) redundancy would be a better choice. I love 4 copies of electrolyze for this. Works as removal early, retains card advantage and tempo, and can be used as the finisher once you hit with the master.

The planeswalkers are ok, but jace just has a so/so effect with only 1 copy (unreliable), and saheeli runs into the same problems as above (any damage she does before the master is useless).

Jin-gitaxias doesn't really fit either. It is a win condition all on its own, so field it and you don't really need the rest of the system you're building. On top of that, 10 mana is a hell of a thing to have (you give opponent the chance to counter and a whole turn to remove it afterward before it really matters). A better way to maximize your system while keeping the tempo is with torrential gearhulk. A beast with flash that can snap back a bolt after you connect with master for game is perfect for this build. Run 4 bolts, 4 electrolyzes, 3 torrential gearhulks, 3 creeping tar pits, and 4 master of cruelties and that should be enough to get the job done. Then you can use the rest of the spots you've created to max out the control and tactics (1 drop draw) to make sure you stay alive and keep control.



So, to sum up. My suggestions are

take out: jin-gitaxias, tetsuko, blightning, the planeswalkers, and the temple lands

Add in- man lands, electrolyes, torrential gearhulks, and more control/tactical goodness




Just my thoughts, not trying to put down the build or anything like that

Hi friend. What kind of budget are we working with here? I see some possible areas of improvement, but it would be easier to discuss them if I know how much possible cash is on the table

Clever title, as I assume the implication is "baby don't hurt me"

May I ask why the massive sideboard? Just things you were considering for the build?

Hi friend. I see a few potential problems in here. Since you have goyf and good lands, I'll assume there are no budgetary concerns.

In general, you are a little 2-choked, meaning the vast majority of your deck costs 2 mana, so you're curve is ineffective. There are some good 1 drop options that would help speed this deck up and make it more consistent. The biggest one that comes to mind is sleight of hand or serum visions, both of which serve 2 purposes. Firstly, they are magnificent turn 1 tactical drops that are basically never dead draws and help you up the speed of the deck like crazy. Secondly, it ups your sorcery count to make goyf bigger. Some good 3 drops to consider would be rogue refiner (hits and draws (energy isn't really important)) and sin prodder (draw/burn engine with menace for excellent damage option).

Sylvan caryatid doesn't really belong in here for a few reasons. Firstly, the curve on this deck is low, so you don't really need him as a mana producer to get to bigger spells effectively. Secondly, the land choices are good (I would prefer to run 8 fetch lands (helps goyf get big and makes sure you never have color problems)) so you don't need him to fix color problems. And thirdly, you don't really need him as a blocker and as you're running only 13 other creatures he takes away the aggressive swarm this deck could have going for it if you subbed in an agro option.

Domri doesn't fit given the current balance of creatures to non-creatures. His first abil is not going to land effectively (17/60 hits), the second is conditional and realistically doesn't have good targets for you (your guys are smaller and caryatid can't fight), the last abil is great but slow and better options exist for support in a build like this. Jace, cunning castaway would fit well and would keep the planeswalker count in to help pump up goyf.

Mana leak is a bad choice in this build. It's reactive, conditional, and loses effectiveness the later in the game it gets. Plus, as stated above, 2 mana is your number in this deck, so turn 2 you want to drop a creature and get to work, meaning you don't want to wait around for opponent to play something so you can counter it.

Voltaic brawler is an ok agro beast, but since you aren't running an energy build its really only a 3/2 2-drop with an ok ignition effect. There are worse options for sure, so its your call.

Heroic intervention is super duper reactive and basically wont help you unless opponent runs a nuke. I would say swap it to the sideboard to keep it handy to wreck control builds.





A couple other general cards to consider are:

Goblin dark dwellers: fits perfectly with the good removal and whatnot you're running, and a 4/4 with menace is a pretty good sledge.

Thrun the last troll: hexproof sledge of doom

Bloodbraid elf: tempo and card advantage madman




Just my thoughts, not trying to put you down or anything like that.

Well, strip mine is legacy, but I see what you're saying. Ghost quarter/field of ruin and their ilk would work well in here (as I noted in my description), but I tend to rely on them in the sideboard and stick to man lands in the mainboard, but that's just me. You could easily invert it.

As for increasing the synergy pieces, the point of this deck is to not have to rely on any specific combo or piece of synergy, but instead play off mechanics that aid each other for a gain in card advantage and tempo that has the probability (not necessity) of assembling a strong synergy system (in this case revolving around gitrog).

I chose to run only 1 crucible because of how easy it is to fetch/return via gifts and eternal witness/academy ruins. Unless opponent is running specifically banish removal for artifacts or has a precisely times grave hate, crucible is coming back.

And, more to the point, crucible isn't a necessity in here, it just puts gitrog over the top and works well with the man lands. In fact, none of the specific pieces in here are "necessary" to get done what this deck is trying to do, because it's taking advantage of the "good stuff" idea, where you throw tempo eaters and card advantage producers at opponent until he falls over.

Looks pretty good to me. I don't really like the single copy of mana leak, as you aren't likely to draw it when it is potent, and are far more likely to topdeck it when its conditional and slow. I would personally max out remand, as it hits so hard in the early game and basically replaces itself whenever you draw it. Its also the number 1 eater of tempo and best friend of control that needs time to field a win condition, just like this build.

Personally I don't like running 4 snaps, as they are dead in the opening most of the time (don't want to waste them on a serum visions), so maybe drop out the mana leak, drop it to 3 snaps, add in 2 remands, and see how that runs? I know its not a popular opinion to run 3 snaps over 4, but I personally hate seeing one in the opening hand and running 3 cuts down on the opening hand presence but keeps it relevant.