Jessie

What would be some cards to take out, then?
I am really struggling with this one.

The deck in question, is brutal. He self discards himself with Bottomless Pit and Delirium Skeins, then throws down an Ensnaring Bridge, and hides as his Guiltfeeder and Nihil Stone goes to town. I freaking hate that deck! Can't tell you the number of times i have lost against it..sometimes 4 and 5 losses in a row.

It was that deck that made me feel iffy about Mind Twist. I was seeing the speed he was going...and thought, Mind Twist isn't even viable in his deck. It is too slow. It blew me away. Mind Twist not being the best fit for a discard deck. It opened my eyes.

It was also the deck that made me take back my love for Caress. I began to see the power of Nihil Stone. If you are down to 1 card, , and the Nihil stone is charged, you have this option. 1) Play it and take 5 damage next upkeep. 2) Don't play it and he will make you discard it anyways with a discard card. IT sucks.
That is way better than Caress. With Caress, of course, you are going to want to play every card, and topdeck. Not with Nihil Stone. It makes you question every card you play/hold in your hand. Stressful. Do I play the card and take 5 damage next upkeep, do i keep it in my hand and hope he doesn't have a discard spell? If he does have a discard spell, is it better to play my card now and take the 5 damage. It makes you a mess!

http://www.mtgvault.com/magiccontroller/decks/meanest-multi-discard/
It deserves more love. Only Blackfire Phoenix bragged on it.

JensDagon, the fact that you mentioned Cabal Therapy and Hymn to Tourach, over Thoughtseize, shows that you have done your studies, too. :) Awesome back and forth, here. :)

Done with first version.

Awesome, thank you! :) Sorry i get so ranty/scruby/opinionated sometimes. I get worked up too much. It gets me downvoted, more often than not.

Stax package? Please explain?

What lands might you suggest?

Was trying to run it balanced, but you are probably right. Will look at your deck tomorrow, for sure.
Sorta want to go on a deck making hiatus for awhile. Got to get this EDH deck out of the way, though.

Is Mind Slash viable with Waste Not? Some sort of gravecrawler/Bloodghast/myr servitor deal? Or Carnival of Souls mana generator>? Been trying to come up with something. This guy did some pretty decent justice with Waste Not. At first, it almost seems easier to break then it really is.

Don't mention Iggy, or you will get downvoted with me, lol.

Thanks. Yeah, this deck is a mess. Surewhynot suggested the card...but i am awful with the idea/concept of sacking my own stuff. It is very blackish, in nature. And that is my worst color. I never even played black until trying it last year. I will keep working with it. Surewhynot put up a worthy challenge.

Thanks Vaan.

"Mind Twist and Channel
When these cards were first banned in 1995, Magic: the Gathering was a different game than it is now. In spite of the many cards that have been restricted, the speed of Type 1 has steadily increased over the years. This increase in speed is the result of the thousands of cards that have been added to Type 1 since Channel and Mind Twist were banned. In fact, Type 1 is fast enough now that these cards, while still powerful, no longer unbalance the game as they once did."
That is from Wizards. DCI Banned list. Haters gonna hate, as Northy says.

Mind Twist was god, around Revised. But Moxes, Sol Ring, Black Lotus were also legal too. Yes, Mind Twist was the 2nd card banned. Yes, it shows how god like it is that it would be banned before Lotus. Again, I get that. I am just saying there are two differently groups of people with Mind Twist. 1. Those that think it is god like. 2. Those that that think it absolutely amazing, but not as god like as it was in 1995.

Back in 2007, WotC decided to make Mind Twist completely unbanned and unrestricted in Vintage. In the 6 years that Mind Twist was completely legal in Vintage, decks with Mind Twist had only made top 8 tournament appearances a total of 6 times.

drumhead is right.

They are still alive, what are they, 100? :)

JensDragon, will you go check out this deck for me, it has beaten me over 20 times. 3 times in a row today.

http://www.mtgvault.com/magiccontroller/decks/meanest-multi-discard/

When you get beat by this guy, who says he would never run Mind Twist in his deck (even if you gave him a playset of Mind Twist) , 20 times...you start to think about Mind Twist. lol. He throws down, and with dark ritual, has a fully charged Nihil Stone on Turn 1. Throws down an Ensnaring Bridge on Turn 3. Turn 4 I can't attack and am losing 5 life a turn to Nihil Stone.

I bought 4 Mind Twist for 20 bucks...tested them in my red/black Caress for weeks. Now they are sitting in my binder of expensive cards. Collecting dust. I guess I just couldn't find a way to beat his discard deck with my discard deck. When he is pay 2 mana to make me discard 2 cards...and i am paying 3 mana to make him discard 2 cards...he is beating me to the punch, and charging his Nihil Stone at the same time.

Break down of Mind Twist:

1) Pay 2 mana for Mind Twist. What you get is: One card discarded. 2 mana for 1 card discarded? That is awful!
Pay 1 Mana: Duress, Thoughtseize, Funeral Charm, Blackmail, Cabal Therapy. Mind Peel. Inquisition of Kozilek. Skull Fracture. 1 mana for 1 card. That isn't awful.

Do you want to pay 2 mana for 1 card discarded or pay 1 mana for 1 card discarded? Speed is key in discard.

2) Pay 3 mana for Mind Twist. What you get is: 2 cards discarded. 3 mana for two cards discarded? Awful, again.
Pay 2 mana: Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy or Duress/Blackmail or Duree/Cabal Therapy. 2 mana for 2 cards. Not awful.
Or Pay 2 mana for: Hymn to Tourach, Chain of Smog, Wrench Mind. 2 mana for 2 cards.

Do you want to pay 3 mana for 2 cards discarded or pay 2 mana for 2 cards discarded? Again, speed kills in discard.

By the time you can pay 4 or mana to Mind Twist, your opponent's hand should be empty anyways. Unless something went wrong.

It is rated 4.6 out of 5. One of the highest in Magic. It brutalized games back in 1995. Banned in Type 1 in 1995 or 1996 because of it's pure power. I do get that.

But go to tappedout, or Gatherer. You will see the same arguments. Plain and simple: 1 mana for 1 card discarded is better than 2 mana for 1 card discarded. 2 mana for 2 cards discarded is better than 3mana for 2 cards discarded.

Mind Twist makes you pay 1 mana before it even does anything. So, unless you have a miracle hand with 2 or 3 Dark Rituals...it is slower. More powerful and less cards used, but still slower.

Not knocking your deck though, i was one of the people that liked it.

Ribbit.
Point taken :)

And if they have a Waste Not card...are they going to make a Want Not card?

surewhynot, this EDH Shattergang is busting my balls! lol.
Advice welcome.
Got most of the combo cards together, and put down.
It is the lands and the cards that tie the deck together, that I need help with.

Yep. About finished making decks for awhile. So...might as well try to help out and look at more people's decks.

Polymorphist's Jest is Turn to Frog, on steroids. :)

I checked it out.
I suggested a card.
Good luck.

And City of Brass. That is what i run if i am trying to do crazy stuff like 3 land colors.
Harrow. Crop Rotation. Those cards help secure your mana base too.

Awesome, yep, will take a look. I don't know much about cascade. Hexproof i know, though.
I commented on it. Thanks for the contribution.