TheSwarmer

I've fuck all to say here except that I love your deck naming conventions and we all need to go back to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_0msEJylC4

I mean combo is either blue based or graveyard based, and there is tension between [[relic of progenitus]] and [[seal of fire]] when dealing with moggwarts for example, but cycle storm, one land spy, 5 land spy, all only care about relic, whereas on the draw a decent high tide pilot that did not get shafted by mulligans will more or less always beat you on turn 4 if you don't have [[pyroblast]].

And yeah, the last instance I have found of readily played curse and marauders was in 2020 but it's still really strange to see these cards that are quite situational nowadays; a deck that aims to mostly ignore small shitters (inspectors, etc.) cannot really utilize [[Keldon Marauders]] fully, and a deck that aims to win via burn on turn 4 if things go well, does not really have time to get value from [[curse of the pierced heart]]. That's why they've been sideboard cards for more or less half a decade, Marauders are great against decks with few creatures and a lot of removal (worst case is a 1-for-1 trade & a [[shock]] and best case is a fucking 2 mana [[lava axe]], and Curse is only good in long games in which [[hydroblast]] does not appear.

Now I never have and never will play EDH, partially because my favorite card is [[Smallpox]] and my idea of fun of helping my opponents' reach enlightenment by helping them let go off all their attachments (permanents), allowing them to fully appreciate the beauty of their playmats.

On that note, this deck does not feel staxy enough. [[Tainted Aether]], [[Bottomless Pit]], [[Painful Quandary]], and the marauders [[Fleshbag marauder]], [[accursed marauder]], [[Plaguecrafter]] etc. Thought a lot of these would requite at least 4 or 5 other cards to be moved around. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a [[Smallpox]], [[Necrogen mists]] etc. build of this would require more expensive cards like [[Bitterblossom]]. Neverthelss, [[Tainted Aether]]?

I uhm, I cannot imagine I am saying this but I think this needs more Kozilek's Commands - a misbegotten card I abhor with spite of biblical proportions. Nevertheless, you cannot always rely on countering, blocking, or bouncing and countering opposing threats. I would really enjoy seeing how this plays out, but my instincts tell me more permanent solutions may be required. [[Wasteland]]s too maybe? Big fan of the idea.

And maybe more commands is stupid? This is not a big mana deck, after all.

Why a 2017 list? Even if you want to stray away from [[Experimental Synthesizer]] and [[Clockwork Percussionist]] and [[Goblin Tomb Raider]], this makes no sense.

[[Thermo-Alchemis]] and [[Kessig Flamebreather]] are more or less mandatory, especially if you are running [[Lava Dart]]. Maindecking [[Keldon Marauders]] and [[curse of the pierced heart]] can be a valid metagame call even nowadays but the cards can suck so incredibly hard. Marauders do less than fuck all in the face of any white deck with inspectors as well as affinity, some terror decks, some combo like goblins etc. And Curse, while incredible against something like Dimir Control, lacks the velocity to be helpful in any fast matchup, hence why it's a sideboard card. [[Sawblade Scamp]] is not a worthy substitute in practice as it sucks in the mirror, against any white deck with creatures, against elves or green aggro in general, against faeries and ninjas, against board clears in post SB games, etc. You don't want a dude that chump blocks, you want a dude with a fat ass to block the vast vast vast majority of creatures in the format that have 2 power or less.

[[Needle Drop]] makes me wonder about the math in regards to it, the **at minimum** 6 copies of alchemist and flamebreather that a deck like this should run, and Wren's Resolve and [[Reckless Impulse]]. People no longer run [[Needle Drop]], opting for 2 mana "draw" 2s instead, though I am not entirely sure the card has been completely power crept out.

Also, at a minimum, you need some graveyard hate in the sideboard for everything from terrors and anglers with [[Unexpected fangs]] to [[Gnaw to the Bone]], one land spy, 5 land spy, Mogwarts, etc. 4 [[Pyroblast]] and 4 [[Cast into the fire]]/[[Smash to Smithereens]]?

Also also, [[Lava Dart]] in the sideboard? Why?

There was a pox 5-0 that used [[Bitterblossom]] to protect the monarchy from [[Court of Ambition]] like years and years ago. The problem with [[Bitterblossom]] nowadays is that games are too fast for the tokens to matter, and the decks against which it might matter run things like [[Prismatic Ending]].

A lot of the value of the enchantment's value nowadays lies in the Tribal type, hence the goyfs. Especially [[Barrowgoyf]] as it can mill it over. And why I like it in Pox builds cause of the ease of discarding it.

I would rather learn how to swallow razorblades than play modern nowadays, so Legacy for sure. And there, you kind of need to go full on black stompy route with [[Ancient Tomb]] or, if you are stuck 2015, the [[Smallpox]] route, so that's kind of what I am looking for. Not that I would build it anytime soon, but it has been quite a while since any real innovation has come to the Pox strategy. [[Court of Ambition]] and [[Karn, the great creator]] were really the last two attempts at plugging some holes in the gameplan.

Waiting for someone to show me the light and make a viable [[Nethergoyf]] [[Bitterblossom]] build.

Hmmm, I really, really like this as an initial build of a wild and strangely beautiful strategy but I think it has many problems, some of which I am sure escape me at the moment. The biggest problem I can see tho is having the combo without a way to pay for [[Stasis]] or otherwise break the symmetry.

To elaborate, in games 2 & 3 all opposing [[Wasteland]]s will be kept untapped to destroy your copies of [[Forsaken City]]. Thus, you should run your own [[Wasteland]]s or Urza's Saga as both an alternate win condition that has to be respected (or a sideboard juke) to get [[Pithing Needle]]. [[Stifle]] is not enough in this regard. Likewise, all opposing countermagic will be aimed at preventing you from doing your thing, and many decks like Delver or Stompy or whatever just need a single threat to stick, which you have zero ways of removing, while they prevent you from establishing the lock. So, [[Veil of Summer]] in the sideboard.

Also, you kind of have to run at least one basic forest.

You have to be able to deal with [[Force of Vigor]] ([[Disruptor Flute]]?)

Ooh, also, Bosh n Roll did a video on this in 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYlMeLjG5dM

[[Plow Under]]?

[[Stroke of Midnight]] does not exile and cannot be cast for 1 or 2 mana, getting rid of a [[Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student // Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar]] or an [[Animate Dead]] for 1 or 2 mana respectively is often what games will be won or lost by.

[[Amulet of Vigor]] is interesting, maybe worth it in a [[Tangle Wire]] balls to the wall Root Maze deck

It's really hard to say without giving it a whirl whether that could work. Though my experience with pox makes me lean towards a No. The way you lose most of your games with decks like Pox, assuming your deck doesn't just outright fail to function to begin with ofc, is that you hit just the right pressure points, you disrupt them and before you can turn the corner and get them to zero permanents or life points they storm off, or topdeck a [[The One Ring]] or [[Show and Tell]] in an [[Omniscience]], etc.

Now it could be that [[Root Maze]] can really only be good in critical mass disruption decks, like bordering on Stax, or that it needs the sort of home that I described in my first comment, where free spells and extremely heavy hitting threats are used to capitalize on an opponent who is really stumbling with their fetch lands.

Some things that come to mind for the more staxy pathway are:
[[Spreading Algae]] + [[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth]]
[[Tangle wire]]??
[[patchwork automaton]], [[sphere of resistance]] type builds

For what it's worth, if the card is playable at all, it's probably so in legacy with how prevalent fetch lands and soul lands are in the format. Looking forward to what sort of nonsense you brew with the card next!

I think free spells and haymakers might be the way. In legacy, an [[Up the Beanstalk]] Simic deck with [[Murktide Regent]] and at least 6 forces, cantrips, Tamiyos, and all that shite, could maybe work? I am not sure, but I really like the card (not as much as you tho xD).

Ah yes, the casual 4x Strip Mine xD Big fan of this tho, takes me back.

Running only 4x [[Swords to Plowshares]] seems dubious at best. Also maybe [[Terminus]]? Given how [[Root Maze]] *probably* plays out.

Now, my favorite card is [[Smallpox]], so [[Root Maze]] as a card is right up my alley, but I think it has seen so little play because, in practice, the sort of decks that can spare slots to play it are also the kinds of decks that cannot really capitalize on making the opponent stumble. And ofc the card slows you down just as much. Unlike [[Smallpox]], it is much much harder to build a deck that breaks the symmetry, and much like [[Smallpox]], the main issue you will run into is that yes, your opponent is doing fuck all on low resources, but so are you. And this is not really a problem you need to solve per se, but you do need to minimize it. Pox does this with [[Liliana of the Veil]] and Urza's Saga for example.

Can't help but feel like [[Unearth]] would work really well here.

Also protein bars tend to have a decent amount of fat, it's where some of the flavor and a lot of the nutrients come from. See the Truth!

Okay, what? xD
[[Putrid Imp]] is shit nowadays; too slow, too unimpactful, don't run it except for religious reaons.
4 [[Breakthrough]] is extremely excessive. [[Ox Of Agonas]] should be played instead as at least 1 of.
4x [[Cabal Therapy]] is a necessity while [[Wreck and Rebuild]] is just bad in a shell like this and [[Life From the Loam]] serves little to no purpose as the game should be over before the lands matter and dredge super low compared to the other options.
[[Poxwalkers]] and [[Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis]] should be included.
lion's eye diamond for speed and optimal build viability in the metagame.
[[Prized Amalgam]] is too slow for legacy and not worth running
4 [[Ichorid]] is too much in a deck with so few black creatures, many of which are dredgers or other Ichorids.

Lastly, the sideboard of a dredge deck should consist of nothing but answers to opposing graveyard hate (e.g., [[into the flood maw]], [[portable hole]], etc.) and hate against combo decks that are even faster (e.g., [[leyline of the void]]).

Also, you'll want some very high impact shit for [[Dread Return]] to make sense, I'm talking [[Duskana, the Rage Mother]] or [[Satoru, the Infiltrator]] or at least a manabase of fetches and duals with mountain types and [[Anger]] to make [[Dread Return]] on a [[Golgari Grave-Troll]] lethal (a play that is made much weaker with every [[Ichorid]] included in the deck).

Seems much much better. Focused and aggressive. [[Siege-Gang Commander]] may be hard to cast, but I am very partial towards the card, too many memories of playing with it when I was 9 years old or something. I love it. And I suppose there is some tension between [[Lava Spike]] and the fact that the rest of the deck is an aggressive tribal creature deck. Like a turn 1 lava spike is much much worse than a turn 1 goblin as that 1 goblin will attack multiple times, or eat a removal spell after doing some damage, or stress the opponent's blockers 3 turns down the line, or enable [[Goblin Grenade]]. BUT [[Lava Spike]] is better against board clears so it is not objectively wrong to run it. Nevertheless, cards like [[Legion Loyalist]], [[Foundry Street Denizen]], or [[goblin rabblemaster]] *may* be better.

Oh also, for aggressive creature-based red decks, [[Sundering Eruption // Volcanic Fissure]] can be really really good in cases where taking 3 damage is irrelevant.

Damn, this shit is cool as fuck! Only thing is that 4 [[Force of Negation]] just seems excessive, especially with so many non-blue cards. Also, do you think you can fit a Triome land in there to cast Fire? Like, surely you don't need 3 surveil lands,

Generally, cards like [[Raging Goblin]] indicate you want the game to be over asap, certainly before cards like [[Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet]] and [[Butcher of Malakir]] come into play. Furthermore, the odds of being able to cast these cards on curve are below 20% in a deck with 22 lands. Lastly, [[Goblin Chieftain]] and [[Goblin Grenade]] in a deck with so few goblins is kind of sketchy.

It just seems like the deck is trying to go into too many directions. Reminds me of a lot of the decks I built around the time I started playing, but the concept is more solid than me using [[Flame Slash]] to make [[Phytohydra]] not shit xD.

Also, casting [[Gatekeeper of Malakir]] for BBB in a deck where only half the mana sources provide black is very, very, very sketchy. Why not make 2 decks, a midrange vampire one, with high quality threats and removal such as [[Vampire Nighthawk]] and another goblin deck, a mostly red one with a slight black splash for [[Slavering Nulls]] and mayble lords like [[Mad Auntie]].