thewuest

By the way... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbb0qZ6xq6w

Casual, I assume?
Looks solid and fun to play. A 2 or 3 of Phyrexian Arena may help you not run out of steam/cards, which is even better when you're OK with drawing any card in your deck, especially lands.
I always ran UG for landfall, but you're right. Orzhov is sweet.
By the way, Scrib Nibblers is one of my all-time favorite cards. Heez in ur librareez, nibblin ur scribz...

Also, could you check out my legacy Thresh-Miracle-Top deck? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=330238
Thanks

here's a list for the five color control: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=27580

And by card advantage in aggro, I mean some sort of draw engine. For example, when i run burn, I try to splash black or blue for cards like Dark Confidant, Jace, and other things that can consistently keep my hand full of spells. If you look at Bant decks in Legacy (http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=44&meta=39), they always run Sylvan library or Jace.

So basically, cards like doom blade or mana leak turn all your spells into "Target opponent discards a removal card", which is annoying if you run out of spells. But if you can generate consistent 2 for ones (using up 2 of their cards for your card) or just get more spells than the other player, you should get enough stuff through to win. That's why Dark Confidant (A goblin piker with lifeloss for you attached) is so good. That's why Lingering Souls is so good; it gets you 4 cards with one card.

Sorry to respond late, I've been out of it recently. Enjoying this conversation. :)
I'll go comment on some of your decks soon.

Nice man. If this were Legacy, I'd say Innocent Blood, but...

For now, I'd drop Timely and instead run 1 more Abyssal and... another kill spell?

Anyway, I've been working on a Legacy list. It's Canadian Thresh that tries to abuse Miracle by using Countertop, Brainstorm, etc. I can't get any amount of attention with all the alt-boosters and bad standard players, and frankly I don't want it from the Upcoming and Top pages ("Hey! Needs moar Jace" commenters are quite annoying). So I'm asking some players whose decks I've seen and respect to look at it. Would you do the same? Thanks. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=330238

Back to standard. Cool. Looks pretty solid, man. Good build.

Maybe you should cut the Tibalts for more Lootings. I tend to prefer Looting because you have selection and you can dig deeper per activation. Think about it this way. With 2 turns and 4 mana, you can loot 4 with one card, and get to keep the best cards from the top 4 cards of your library. But with Tibalt, you need 4 turns and 2 mana to do the same thing, and you get a random assortment of cards. Tibalt can only be used for hand improvement if and only if your hand sucks, something it shouldn't for four turns in a row. And I'd rather do 2 turns and 4 mana rather than 4 turns and 2 mana in a deck like this, which wants to finish the opponent in ~5 turns anyway.
But besides that, you have a very solid deck there. Might want to add a few Chandras and/or some Tezzeret's Gambits, so you can generate card advantage and not burn out as quickly.

Sorry for writing a book about Tibalt. On another note, I've got an idea for Legacy that I'd like for you to check out. I'm trying to build decks, and it's pretty hard to get attention what with all the alt boosters : /. So since I've seen some of your decks and think you might be able to help, I'd appreciate it if you check out my latest deck. It's a Canadian Threshold deck using Countertop with the new Miracle cards. I'm still unsure whether I chose the right shell in which to build it, but here it is: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=330238

You're correct in your analysis of all of those decks. All I was trying to say was that the game was not just full of control decks. Running responsive cards instead of things like creatures doesn't a control deck make.

I do agree that this standard environment does encourage responsive play, because of all those cards that you listed. But responsive play isn't necessarily control and only makes the game not fun if you're not running enough card advantage in an aggro deck.

Also, not all control decks are as responsive as delver. Look at the Lorwyn-Alara 5C control decks; they pretty much only ran Volcanic Fallout as removal (albeit with 8 counterspells, 4 or which were Cryptic Commands).

That's why NON-AGGRO is dominating standard... Yeah...
And don't tell me that Delver is control. It's aggro tempo.
Zombies are aggro midrange.
GR Aggro is aggro.
Birthing Pod is midrange combo.
Just look at mtgtop8.com

Frankly, I don't see the point of having red in here at all. First of all, you're running 14 red producing lands, but all you have is 2 inferno titan and 2 incinerate.

If you're running red, run slagstorm. It is the best red control card in standard. Otherwise, just drop it, add a karn and a few nephalia drownyards, MAINDECK BSZs, and you have a nice UB control deck.

If you're upping red, though, take out a few titans, add chandra, and maindeck olivia. Sorin's Vengeance + Chandra = game.

I do. Especially in Modern.

*swords ranked best to worst.

4) Artifacts. Use the two creature slots you dropped (Obliterator and Elspeth), along with a land or so, to put in some Mox Diamonds. It's card disadvantage, but few decks can compete with a turn one Mystic, turn two Batterskull. That's scary tempo.

Lastly, don't listen to clone002 and Progenitals. Clone is obviously a standard player who doesn't know squat about legacy, and Progenitals is probably a casual player (nothing against him; I love casual). Edna's smart, though. :)

Sorry for writing a book, and I hope my advice is useful!

2) Creatures. You're running enough. You're effectively running over 20 creatures, including token producers. I'd suggest cutting down. How about -1 Obliterator (too difficult to cast), -1 Elspeth (you have tokens and boost already, and can protect your permanents (disruption, removal, runes). She's superfluous. I'd replace them with some non-creature options. Look at point 4.

3) Land. 22 is a good number. Nice choice. I'd replace 2x Swamp with 2x Urborg, Tomb to Yawgmoth. It makes you able to produce colored mana with Wastelands and Fetchlands. One is not enough; I run 4. The last swamp, and the Godless Shrines, could be replaced with Rishadan Ports if you make this change. The ability to use them for color frees you up, and the port is the best way to screw with a player. That and Wasteland are sufficient mana denial, especially if you use Vindicate on a land, too. I've had an opponent locked at 0 usable lands, and a Mother of Runes killed him wielding a Batterskull.

Hey man. I run a similar list. I just posted it so you can see. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=322216

In terms of advice, here is what I'd say:

1) Sword selection. Duh Jitte, Duh Batterskull. It's the third one that's the issue. War and Peace, imho, is the worst one. It doesn't give card or board advantage like the others do. It's really only for standard play. Remember that card and board advantage are infinitely more important than life totals (just look at Sign in Blood and Bitterblossom for obvious examples). Here's my ranking of the swords: Fire and Ice, Feast and Famine, Light and Shadow/Body and Mind (can decide for these), War and Peace. Fire and Ice is amazing. It can simultaneously give you card and board advantage by killing their creature and drawing you a card (procolors decent). Feast and Famine gives card advantage, and helps you cast stuff, but it doesn't give board advantage (procolors ok). Light and Shadow gives life and card advantage, and can help with recurring locks (procolors great). Body and Mind gives you another body (board advantage, but the mill is detrimental as often as it is good (procolors suck). War and Peace, not as great, because if it gets removed even after several turns, you're a card down. And usually it accounts for about 10 damage total in a game, which is only a little more than the others (procolors good). If you want more explanation about swords, I'll give it, but I doubt you'll need it.

Same basic thing. You can get Emmy out before the triggered a resolves. It's just with Emmy, the rest of the GY goes back, too.

OK, rules people. Here's how it works.

First Entomb goes on stack.

Then, Entomb resolves.

Serra Avatar enters graveyard.

Serra Avatar's TRIGGERED ABILITY goes on the stack.

Shallow Grave is cast, going ON TOP of the triggered ability on the stack.

Shallow Grave resolves.

Serra Avatar enters the battlefield.

Triggered ability fizzles because Serra Avatar is no longer in graveyard.

This is a combo that can be done with Emrakul. It's pretty famous. Look it up (not with Progenitus, as P never enters the graveyard).

Well, duh you can win with defense of the heart. The card is broken. I can win with stuff like Aluren. :/

Before the 4 card rule was made, you could just have 20 BL, 20 A-Call, and 20 Bolt. You're not doing anything special here. So people, move on.

Feckin trolls. You literally spent too much time A) creating an alt and B) building a deck, as well as advertising the deck (1 minute per comment = about ten minutes) just to annoy. Gary, I expect you to sweep in like superman sometime soon.

Surewhynot, please don't comment on this deck. The last thing we need is another Jimmy (although, hey, this could be the same guy). Unless you have a complete zing, it's not worth boosting this deck by another 3 likes.

Ah, makes more sense. @ Eric. You can't rely on being able to use Stoneforge's activated ability. In every format I play her in, she is dead before she can. Basically, she can tutor an equipment, and if you have card control on your opponent, maybe drop it herself. And if you run 4 stoneforge, that's even more reason not to run 4 batterskull. You don't need to rely on drawing batterskull to get it. Every competitive stoneblade deck runs only 1 to preserve library slots. I understand that this is a casual deck, but the same could apply here.

like chronatog...
mill them out.