Edna

Well, this seems pretty good. The first major problem I see, though is not having enough black mana producers. I would add the last 2 Drowned Catacombs over the Halimar Depths and maybe 1 Misty Rainforest. I feel like the deck would benefit from just a couple more artifacts. In particular, Darksteel Axe seems awesome with the Lich. Not only does it make it even bigger still, but even more indestructible. Now that Tezzeret is out with another portion of an artifact set, more people are running artifact removal which makes your Lich almost even worse than it was before. If you ran the axe, however, it would not be so much of a problem. Most builds I have seen run Divine Offering instead of Revoke Existence so it seems great. Also, along with that, this seems like a perfect deck for Trinket Mage. If you could grab an axe with the Mage and follow it up with an indestructible 5/5, it seems hard to see you losing too many games. Just some ideas to toss around. Take it as you will and good luck with it.:)

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yeah, I just cut the Treasure Mage. He was good for testing the deck a bit, though. If your deck is still needing to try out certain 6+ artifacts, he's quite a good card to help test with.

The extra cost on the Mass is slightly annoying, but yet, it is at least only 1 mana and dodges Day of Judgement which is the Caw-Go deck's main removal spell (and a very popular deck at the moment). You were right about Trinket Mage fetching that card, but it also fetches the Brittle Effigy which is very handy sometimes. Plus, it works with Grand Architect well and can just net card advantage with the Chalice when needed. Also, it grabs the Elixir of Immortality post-board which is probably one of the best reasons to play it honestly.

I did drop the Mimic Vat, to make room for other cards like Duress and Inquisition. It just wasn't doing as much some games and the games where I really wanted it, it was like I could never draw it! Haha. Oh well...

I'm working on the control element a bit more right now. It seems to be a good addition. I wasn't originally sure how much artifacts I would need/want, though.

The Champion almost seems too aggressive for the deck, though it may be a decent sideboard against the creature decks. Darksteel Axe has the same type of problem. It doesn't really do enough for the deck I think. If I wanted an equipment, it would likely be one of the swords instead I think.

Opal seems like the card that always works best when I don't need it as much anymore. I'd want it to be active the first 3 turns, where it won't be active. After that, my Chalices and Sphere of the Sun's will be enough, mixed with Pilgrim's Eye, I think. I do love the card, but feel like this just isn't the right deck for it (and the legendary part really hurts it).

Phyrexian Revoker is probably best at shutting down Jace, the Mind Sculptor and not enough else I think. The problem is, my deck places Jace, and even Tezzeret, probably the next best option to name. It just seems a bit counter-productive. Is there a better card it could hit instead? Maybe I'm missing something with this card...

Final ruling thus far: Agree with more control and dropping the Treasure Mage. Chimeric Mass still stays, along with the mage to fetch it. This is maybe just a pet card of mine, but I like it. You could be right and I totally see your argument. It'll be kept in mind for sure. However, it is also a 5/5 for 0 with the help of Tezzeret... That never seems too bad.;) Oh, and the Battlesphere... pretty much insane with Tezzeret and excellent without.:) Thanks for your advice, as always. I'll keep all of it in mind, but keep working on it for now.

Well, I've tested it a bit more and I'm thinking you're right (as was Ethan) about dropping the number of big guys. The main reason is because Tezzeret already honestly can do that for you anyways... I added four 1-mana discard effects to help against control and even slow down some of the aggro decks. Sphere of Suns is back in the deck. Tumble Magnet still hasn't really proven itself to me that much yet that I need 4, but a couple can be nice at times. I'll check out your deck now.:) Thanks for your comments.

Turn 3 Titans are good, and can still be achieved through Lotus Cobra and Explore with Misty Rainforests. Not quite as likely, but possible, nonetheless. Frost Titan has typically been one of my worst cards in the deck from my testing, quite honestly. Against decks like yours with lots of other titans, it can truly shine, but otherwise it's often the worse "bomb" I can play. Avenger is at 3 because it is honestly much better than either of the titans. It really does everything. Against Control, they have 1 turn to answer it typically or they lose. Against Aggro, it blocks like a champ and stalls the board to let me get back to a truly dominant position as at that point, even drawing a land will help me. Plus, against some of the quick decks, it actually just lets me race them back, something Frost Titan struggles to do. More than 3 Avengers seems a bit iffy because like you said, it costs 7... I originally ran BoP actually and dropped them. They just allowed my opponents for more blowouts with cards like pyroclasm or DoJ early. I've found that Lotus Cobra is just much much better usually - especially with fetch lands. Wurmcoil is too slow and not as good as the titans, I've found and have quit running him after testing showed he wasn't honestly that good. Too slow against the decks where he's truly needed. Growth Spasm is great for an early, all-in, start but that is not my goal so much. Thanks for the comments though. I do keep them in mind. Good luck with your GB version.

I think you should have some sort of sideboard set up to make it better against the varieties of decks. Combo will just outright kill you without batting an eye. You have virtually no way to stop it. Sideboarding cards like Memoricide, hand disruption in the form of cards like Duress and Thoughtseize, and sometimes even cards like Leyline of Sanctity can really go a long way in stopping these decks. Against control, they actually probably will have enough counters to stop you, along with their single Grave Titan or card similar to it. Similar cards can be sided in against them. Against both of these decks, it seems unlikely that Forbidden Orchard will be enough to go all the way.

Against Aggro, you apparently seem pretty set so no more than 3 cards probably need to be devoted to that (although you may want to make sure decks like Kuldotha Red that have turn 3 kills don't overrun you). Something like Isochron Scepter to go with the the Holy Day cards might be perfect.

Hope this is a bit of help. Not trying to say it's a bad list, but just pointing out a few weaknesses it naturally has and a few suggestions on how to fix them.

Overall it seems pretty good. Personally it seems a bit threat heavy, but by not playing blue I suppose you don't have as many ways to draw cards... I would probably swap out the Stampedes for Garruk Wildspeaker instead. It can do the same, but ramp as well or make beasts if you need blockers or just a few extra guys to push through for the win (really useful vs. control decks with Day of Judgement). Massacre Wurm seems like it'd be better in the sideboard and could maybe be taken out. Also, I would add Lotus Cobra. It's probably the best ramp card you can use if it survives, especially with fetch lands. After that, I would try to add 2 more land, even with all the ramp. The worst thing is missing land drops when you have so many big guys. Just some advice. If you'd like,you can give my updated UG ramp deck a look. It's put up really good results for me so far and is very similar in purpose to this deck.

Glad to hear it! Keep it up!

The Chimeric Mass is a great blocker/artifact at any stage of the game and can be tutored out by the Trinket Mage. There are also plenty of artifacts to make use of Tezzeret's -1 ability. The Pilgrim's Eye is incredible because it thins my deck, prevents me from missing land drops, and becomes a 5/5 flyer with Tezzeret. If I need to kill something off with a Brittle Effigy, I'd much rather be able to do that than playing a planeswalker that wouldn't save me anyways. If the walker would help me, then I'd just play it instead. Every card in this deck can be a threat with the help of Tezzeret or even on its own in the case of the cards like Wurmcoil Engine and the Myr Battlesphere. Jace is actually surprisingly one of the worst cards in here as far as "threats" go. Mimic vat doesn't need to even imprint one thing of mine to be even decent. And yet, I would love to imprint any of the creatures in my deck onto it. It's also a 1-of because it is not going to be the best card in many situations, but there are some matches where it will shine incredibly and give the deck ways to win it otherwise may not be able to. Treasure Mage is primarily experimental but great with a slightly diversified threat force. It's also almost like having another artifact out. Grand Architect is probably one of the weakest cards in the deck. None of the cards need it to power them up really and the "ramp" is hardly useful when instead I can play Chalices and similar cards. Plus, it is not itself an artifact which is relevant. As for the pulling in too many directions, that may be the one area I could actually understand an argument for. It does appear that way, and I realize this. At this point, the deck is still undergoing a fair amount of tweaking. Numbers are off, but the base seems well set, I think.

Any counter-arguments? Just trying to explain why some of the cards are actually quite relevant and not nearly as bad as you seem to see it as.

Haha, thanks for backin' me up with that. But yeah, I really wouldn't rough it up until you've given some of it a try. So far it seems pretty potent. Always have things to tweak of course and the metagame will play the biggest part in making a deck good.

The Transmuter seems like a great card, although not standard anymore which this deck is trying to stick to...

This is pretty true, but only having 3 charge counters can be a major pitfall. Plus, they are really good sometimes and terrible against some of the more swarm-type decks so I think 2 is probably the right number. Also, as for the 2-of type thing, Most of it is just for diversifying options and redundancy. For example, the Trinket Mage is mostly there as a random, fetch w/e is most important at the time card but not entirely relevant on its own. I understand the argument for 4-ofs though. I always used to try to make my decks as streamlined as possible and it makes sense why, but in practical senses, it doesn't always work out so nicely. :/ I'll keep it in mind, though. Thanks.

Even in mono red? Hmm. I guess I haven't tested the deck or anything but it just seems like it's got so much potential. Even if it was a land that simply said "Sac this land, deal 4 damage to target player" i'd play it. This land essentially does that and even more, I think.

I'm just gonna say let's agree to disagree since it doesn't appear that this is going anywhere... Those are just my opinions. I really LOVE the Pool but I'm just not seeing it outside of casual and/or multiplayer. 18 land is such a bad idea. Your average hand won't even get 2 land, or maybe just barely, in it with very little chance of having 4 land on turn 4. That's never good news.

Btw... It's decks like these that make me VERY happy they have not reprinted Skullclamp and probably never will. Haha. If you ever wanted to port this over to something like casual legacy, Skullclamp would be soo good!

Why wouldn't you sacrifice the Opal and then attack with the Ornithopter as well for an extra 3 flying damage?

Why don't you add the new Contested War Zone? Then you can also win turn 2 with that helping the likelihood.

Opening Hand: Mountain, Signal Pest, Rebirth, Rebirth, Opal, Opal, Memnite
- Play Signal Pest with Mountain, drop Opal and Memnite. Tap Opal for Rebirth (sacing Opal) and play next Opal and repeat. You now have 7 1/1 and a Pest.

Draw: Contested War Zone
Play War Zone and activate upon attack with everything
You now are attacking with 22 power on the board across 8 bodies.=)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not going to totally argue against them, but try to explain why I haven't made the changes you've suggested or why I maybe wont at all with some of them.

Well, as for Mana Leak, no worries - I'm honestly probably one of the biggest fans of this card out there. I put a full playset in almost any deck that I think could benefit from it. However, this just isn't one of those decks so much. With soo many artifacts, the Rebuttal is essentially the same cost but better. I originally had Mana Leaks but made the swap over and put one Leak back for another Rebuttal. The main reason for this is mind games I can play with the opponent. If they see a Mana Leak game one, they'll be trying to play around it all of game two. Also, it's nice on turn two when usually I can't use the Rebuttal. The fact that there are only 3 counters in the deck is mostly just to use them for the major pesky cards that would otherwise completely stop me and again for mind games with the opponent.

The deck is not in any way intended to be aggro or control. Instead, it is more-or-less a mid-range "Junk" deck. The main thing this deck is built to do is play powerful cards with great effects and card advantage.

As for the Clasp, I did actually originally run 3 plus 1 in the SB. These were really good when they were working at their best, but almost a wasted card when I actually was trying to do something. The fact of the matter is, they're too slow for what they do. At four mana, I'm usually better off leaving up counter/Go For the Throat mana open or dropping a planeswalker or bomb. Seagate Oracle is great in normal UB control decks but this deck needs to maximize its artifacts and the only potential cards to cut then would be artifacts (or cards that find artifacts). Without the Clasp, Emrakul is an even further from possible card and I just don't see it being all that likely.

As for the Spell Pierce, it is an absolute animal against control decks! I can now stop their turn one Inquisition or fire back at their counters to force my cards through for only one mana. Plus, it almost always catches them off guard and stops their planeswalkers. I love the card, and while 4 may be too many, it needs to stay for sure. 3 may be appropriate but testing will determine that. Consuming Vapors is far too slow for stoping all the tokens of Kuldotha Red and both Ratchet Bomb and Black Sun's Zenith do a much better job of stopping these (with added benefits of either being an artifact or being able to kill Thrun and reshuffle effects).

As for too many big threats, that seems to be a reccuring theme. This may be absolutely correct but for now it's mostly just testing. It really depends. The problem is, like you said it is not controlling enough to wait 15 turns to drop a bomb, yet it is not quick enough to possibly justify 6 or more.. We'll see.

Umm, on the right-hand side it just shows the most recently created decks I believe. The "Top" decks spot is for the decks with the most likes and comments on them.

What do you mean exactly by condense? It's only 60 cards, which is the minimum requirement. Unless you mean making it with more 4-ofs... I can understand that but for now I'm going with the diversity and testing route. Thanks for the complement, though.:)

I'd have to say it seems like more often than not, the Bolt is better than Galvanic Blast so I'd probably swap to a 4-2 ratio instead. 19 land seems just a bit shaky, though. I think I'd want more like 22 if it were me.:/ Plus, I'd run one more Goblin Guide, but part of that may be because I'm just a huge fan of the card. Haha. Looks pretty good otherwise, though. Well done.