slothosaurus

yeah, i've tested against valakut and MB I actually seem to be able to hold him off through stall long enough to take care of him and keep the lock down high enough, though often times on game 2 or 3 they'll get 2 valakuts and then harrow + rampant growth for game... Also, I played once against a guy playing valakut with genesis wave who waved in 5 mountains and another primeval... that was a big loose. :( leyline might see some play, but looking at the SCG open results from this weekend, valakut only made 12th and 13th of the top 16... idk.

also, i do agree that pyromancer's ascension is aweful and horrible and no good for me, but seeing as the top 16 at scg open this weekend had quite a few artifacts and enchantments that many decks were built around, I'm not sure that playing instant speed destroy/exile artifact/enchantment MB would be an aweful idea.

sea gate oracle is cool I guess, but I really need exarch's tap-down ability against splinter twin and hero of bladehold.

I'm developing the deck for competitive play, and the SB and MB will generally switch up greatly depending of i'm at playing seriously or at an FNM.

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Out of curiosity though, how did you do? And what did people say about the deck?

I think that coat of arms is a yes, but the others... idk, probably not worth a spot.

only really being primarily tribal in that there's ~10 cat creatures and based VERY heavily on my commander to give me lots of cards, i would definitely agree with coat of arms, but idk about adaptive automaton, and door of destinies? i really have like 10-15% cats. xD idk if that's worth it honestly...

also, when talking about speed up there, remember for some of your combos to work you'll have to pay for sundial every turn.... :( making it even worse. xD

ehhh--- As cool as sundial is, I honeslty don't think the card is half as good as people make it out to be. Although there are brutally awesome combos with it, I agree, the decks with it, I feel, lack consistency.

as far as your deck goes, here's what I think of each card and it's interaction w/ others.

sundial + venser + card_name_here ==> exile your own shit to death, no good. but cool with a few cards in here such as exarch. which can be exiled with venser, brought back at the end of their turn, letting you tap down something to swing in with and not be blocked by gideon (but that's a stretch, and you're missing gideon. which seems awful. xD he's too good to pass up, and has too much synergy with venser.) Also. glimmerpoint is with venser only imo, no need for sundial. it seems like sundial and venser aren't meant to worth together with any other 3 card combos, which is nice.

sundial + x. ==> Cool for protecting a lot of your cards, like colonnade, and cool against their tricks like giant growth or something on a blocker maybe? or something like that. also, well, obviously godteir with mimic vat.

venser + x ==> cool to rest counters on... on wait. :( fun with glimmerpoint stag though. :D and to bounce a sun titan then be able to day then bring back your spellskite or something maybe? cool with o-ring too, to bring it back, or to exile something else. :)


Idk. I feel like the deck is trying to do a few too many different things at once and spreads itself a bit too thin. I on the other hand focused too much on attacking lockdown with a variety of cards which all work very well together and provide lots of consistency, but in doing so, opened myself up to a few cards that will wreck me.
If i were to make suggestions, I'd say to either run gideon, drop the spellskites, and play either mangnets or into the roil, possibly stonehorn. which i obviously really dig. xD lol.
Also no manlands seems odd. I just don't see many win-cons here besides after a very very long time, exiling everything they have and then swinging with sun titan...
Also maybe it might not be a bad idea to throw out or less of mana leak? I find that in my stonehorn lockdown deck, mana leak shows up too inconsistently for me to make the most of it. I ran up to 4 just recently, aka, today, to see if that helped and it did a little, but as this isn't a counter-magic control like UB or UW or UU (haha) normally is, leak is just too little counter magic to rely on it, it'd be better imo to just have something awesome and hold onto in your hand bluffing it as a counter. XD

also - i guess i didn't notice this before, but being able to end your turn is awesome alone in a control deck. honestly. they go to cast something EOT or whatever, and you're just like no. but abolisher would be more useful than sundial for that, or honestly, you could just run didmember. xD or baneslayer or something... idk...


All in all though, I like the deck, I just think it's spreading itself too thin. I'd focus it down to one form of control with a minor splash of another, and add a few more reliable win cons and even out the curve of your control. where as mine starts at 3, and is very slow (though we've had to get used t3 4/4 LL Vig lately... control hasn't always been like that, btw...)

So basically.
1. Focus things down. :)
2. Ways to protect your focus while hurting them at the same time. (sometimes best D is a good O, remember that [aka, sometimes dismember is better D than leak]) :D
3. add more win cons. xD

like i said though, just my personal tips, i really do dig the deck though. :D

i really like it, and wurmcoil is an awesome plan, great card. mimic vat MB is a bit awkward, but it depends on your meta. i'd run more gideon and day over that. day is really powerful, i also don't know if you'll have enough to take out splinter twin consistently. 4 wall of omen might also be overkill, and probably pre-SB instead of real MB, but it depends mostly on your meta i suppose.

your UB control looks solid aside from the fact that it lacks real consistency, running less than 3of that you can't tutor for generally aren't an awesome idea. at least from my experience. (though 2 of dismember is often a good plan, and it's okay to 2 of's if you have lots of draw and you'll only use the card late game)

but yeah, torpor orb does shut it down, luckily, torpor orb is generally an aweful card against everything besides this deck. xD and it certainly won't be MB material, and a good SB against me would be more kill spells, not torpor orb, at least imo (aggro decks won't be afraid enough to use torpor orb of anything)

i'm already weak enough to UB control as it is, and doom blade or dismember on that guy is just aweful, as for the second one, i thought about it, but i'd rather play frost titan, as i already have my spell count tied up and i don't run enough win-cons as it.

hahaha, yeah, far from invincible. you need a lot of counter magic to stop black's killspells, and there doesn't seem to be enough room in the deck to fit it all. :/ which is very, very, VERY sad. leyline and augrey owl was an awesome idea, and so was halimar depths, i'll have to check into those! :D
really though, it's the doom blade / throat / dismember thing that i'm so concerned about, honestly, i might have to end up running 4x MB just b/c i see black everywhere these days.

i'm not 100% sure how you'll fair against heavy aggro though to be honest, with no gideon and no day, idk how you'll deal with glistner infect, infect in general, BB vamps, BR vamps, and tempered steel. :/

haha and yeah, i'm glad to have the idea get some exposure. I'm not a skilled enough player to perfect it, but that's why i'm so glad it's on the front page of mtgvault.com. It means that someone will come along and fix it. I definitely need spell pierce and spellskite MB though, maybe even negate (probably negate)

right not after testing for the past hour against different UB control decks, i realized that dropping 3 wall of omens for 3 spellskites and dropping 2 roils for spellskite and negate MB might be 100% worth it. the deck is just too weak without it.


Honestly though, it makes my day when people leave comments like that! :D I'm really proud of being the first person that i know of on mtgvault or on mtgsalvation to have figured it out and gotten publicity for it, and i hope if you ever do play anything like it at a tcq, just name is stonehorn lockdown. it seems like a really suiting name for the deck. :) lol

also - like i said in previous comments, i have all the cards for my build coming in the mail / trades in the next few days, so next atlanta TCQ i'll be playing it up! :D and at my next FNMs. :P lol

anyways, thanks again for making my day, i loved the comment. and i love the augrey owl and halimar depths idea, in case you don't have out a stonehorn, it really helps.

thumbs up are always awesome! but yeah, kred can kill me turn 2 with a perfect hand, i just have to make sure i too have a perfect hand. xD or a SB. i mean. glistner elf buff is wicked against me, as is kred and goblin tribal. UB control is mean too.

i just don't exactly know how to make the deck faster without sacrificing the integrity of the deck's lockdown post t4.

thanks, i was actually really shocked that i didn't see the combo anywhere else, and most of the faster decks right now that aren't red rely on attacking creatures (primeval titan [for valakut the molten pinnacle] and exarch + splintertwin combo.) they both go off turn 4 and i have answers for both of them, very solid answers.

maybe throw some spellskite in MB? idk... the lawkeeper just doesn't seem like he'd be active enough...

idk though, think how aweful it would be to throw in silence for my deck? :D hahaha, t1 silence, t2 silence, t3 exarch block, t4 begin the lockdown. i don't know how any deck could survive that...

well, killspells obviously, but that's besides the point. xD

or maybe i could throw in wall of omens MB? for the draw and the defender? it would certainly help out against a lot of decks... idk, i'll throw together another version of it and see how it runs.

thanks again for the compliment, i really appreciate it. I'm certainly no genius magic player, i just happened to be the first one to post the combo onto a website and get it some attention. I'm sure a thousand other people saw it before me. :) i mean, idk, i could be the first, but i highly, HIGHLY doubt that.

yeah no, he was certainly in the original option of cards, but as he dies so easily, and i'd rather spend that turn 1 preordaining, he won't see use until t3 when i'd want the mana for an o-ring or an exarch. depending on my local FNM meta i'll MB him or SB him. I've already preordered a playset of lawkeepers, just for this deck.

If anything to help against aggro, I think throwing in another exarch would be my best bet, he's much more versatile as he can untap my own things, and as he can tap down their blue mana for leaks to ensure my t4 stonehorn.

I also believe venser is probably my favorite planeswalker ever, he's just so fun. chalice is also something up for debate, as is gideon's avenger (i had him in a build i tested where I took out stonehorn and just used venser's -1 with gideons avenger and ran 4 gideon and 4 magnets. He ended up being beyond godly with venser's -1 ability, but was too easily doom bladed / throated.


ya know? i had to cut some really serious stuff in this deck to keep the "lockdown" theme around. i didn't run dismember, oust, roil MB, spellskite MB, as well as some other things like friggin tumble magnet.

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In my final response to the lawkeeper thing though. I have 2 things to say. I will almost always stabilize at 4 mana, with day and/or stonehorn. If not, i'll get it by turn 5 (and if i'm not dead by then, then i'll have been bouncing / exiling so many things that it'll be like i've already stabalized.) i think that a much better plan would be to play 1x more exarch, as it'll help with the 3mana flash in for a tap and block. It seems more versatile, and I honestly don't think lawkeeper is that great of a card in my deck where you have to pay the mana for it every turn. where at 3 i've got o-ring and exarch, at 4 i've got day and stonehorn, at 5 i've got venser and gideon, and at 6 i've got sphinx and frost titan. I just don't see lawkeeper fitting into the curve as smoothly as one more exarch, nor do i find it as useful as i'll have to hold back my entire lockdown strategy b/c of lawkeeper. just doesn't seem worth it to me.

ehhhh... i mean i agree, but i played a white green eldrazi that was basically metamorphs, green suns, battlements, wall of omens, primeval titans, and birds, plus some eldrazi. it worked really well, and i honestly almost never found myself green sunning for the primeval. it was always more beneficial to green sun for a battlement.

and i would definitely run red sun + chandra + probably inferno titan if i ran red, and i'd probably skip out on the whole defender one, b/c if you look, i really only have 7 defenders, 4 battlements, 3 wall of frost, and 2 wall of tanglecord. then i mean of course i have metamorph and can get more out quickly with green sun, but eh... i really like the eldrazi cards, and they've been sitting in my binder for ages.

not to mention the automaton doesn't actually get the defender bonus... :/ sadly. just becomes a wall. :/

I'd also like to make a lifegain one, basically taking out the eldrazi and ponder and preordain for wall of omens, felidar sovereign, and perimeter captain. :)

the green sun is to snag out more overgrown battlements. :) for epic insane mana ramp. :)

I actually was like "hmm, I can green sun for that overgrown, tap, tap some more, copy, lay down some more... That's a lot of mana! So do i play red for fireball?!? :o lol

I actually legitimately thought about it. Lol. It'd be fun as hell, fireballing for that much. Oh yes please. Then I remembered I really like emrakul because well, he's emrakul. xD so I went with that. :)

The original SB had 3 Tec edge and 3 sun titans, but I think sun Titan might be worth playing against a control matchup (as I doubt UW control will see a ton of play but UB will see a lot more I'd say) to bring back the spellskites and tarpits that you mentioned, I just feel like is rather play more counter magic instead of after the fact retrieval when they'll have plenty of open mana to counter a sun Titan. :/ idk.

After another run against UB control I realized that I'm perfectly fine having them play inquisition t1, Its not a strong play against me

I was actually kind of curious about that too. Even without it stacking, its still a solid card and a great card! :D
I didn't even look hard at him in the spoilers because I didn't think that that at 4 mana he'd be worth playing in anything. Oh boy was I mistaken though. I'm glad someone else saw him though. I figured the combo would have already been everywhere but I didn't see it anywhere... I have all the cards on preorder the day they come out, and I'm very excited to play it. I'll 100% play it in the next TCQ, but I might sworn around some of the MB and SB for different metagames. This is more FNM built where as adding spellskite and possibly tec edge MB will be better at a tcq just because I'll be seeing very different types of decks.

I definitely agree with it being able to bring back in spellskite, which is a HUGE plus, but as Ill tend to take a lot of damage, if they have only one or two creatures, or I need to tap down their blue mana to protect myself from counter magic. Not to mention exarch can flash in and block, which is very necesary against bloodthirst decks and early tempered steel aggro. It's just very useful,


Also, I meant the same thing by deck thinning. Marsh flats takes a card out, which is awesome. and will help me draw other things I need. Its just the math of it.

yeah, fetch lands are a no-no, when i can't do anything until turn 2 or 3, i'm basically screwed if i run fetch lands (though i'd love to because i strongly believe in deck thinning.)
and sun titan is very, very cool, i think i'd love to see him, but honestly, i'm much more concerned about splinter twin that could go off on t4 and if they're on the play, i'm screwed. so i need revoke existence and roils SB instead.

at least those are my thoughts.

also, i'm a strong fan of never, ever running 1ofs unless you have an awesome tutor (like 1of sword in caw-blade or something.) so idk. originally the SB had 3 sun titans, 3 magnets, and 3 tec edges, just to absolutely destroy valakut. it also didn't run sphinx but instead ran 3x ponder and 3x preordain.

i'm also interested in gideon's lawkeeper as well as (maybe, and this one is up for debate) 2x or 3x chalice, and replace them with tec edge if i need to game2.

sun titan for o-rings and exarchs are very nice though....... very very nice... good point. and for tec edge.

awesome! if you do, or actually plan to and aren't just saying that, let me know asap and PM me or add me as a friend or whatever on mtgvault.com and we can talk about how it played out.

just realize that depending on if the meta at your local FNM is very control-esque, drop 2 condemns and 3 day for 3 spellskite and 2 negate. :) at least that's what i'd do, or any combination there of. :)

hope you enjoy! :D and i'm really glad that this was your first post (it says ThisisSparta (1 posts)) and it made my day that your first post was on my deck. Thank you so much, and thanks to every one else who has been awesome and provided constructive criticism. :) you have no idea how much i appreciate it! :D