slothosaurus

-Sigh of happiness- I love esper, and I have lots, and lots of suggestions for you. :P Don't take it badly or anything, just my thoughts. I always play U, B, or W in every deck I've played with seriously, and I happen to adore the combination of the three. My favorite deck I have physically made right now is my t2 esper beats with tempered steel and tezzeret, and up there in my physically constructed favorites is my esper control deck, which this looks a good bit like. So here's my suggestions and why. :)

-1 sunblast (not many targets, but still a good card, just not as much in this deck imo)
-3 royal assasin (no better than doom blade or whatever, even if it is repeatable, it's easily killable, and although it provides some protection, it requires them to be tapped, meaning they've already delt the damage to you. I'd cut this out and play something that doesn't mean 4 lands from a primeval (you can hardly deal with 2 here, much less only being able to kill after he swings))
-1 gideon avenger (solid card, but the double white is rough in a three colored deck, and it loses some effect if played later on in the game)
-2 alluring siren (awesome draft card, but I wouldn't say an awesome constructed card. even if it works well with assasin. but we're cutting the later, so no need)
-3 wall of frost (again, double is rough in an esper deck, and it doesn't seem to have many good targets to block in the current meta)

-2 baby jace (i'd rather be running 1 cost things to get me the cards I need, as his strengths here rely heavily on using his -1 not his +2, and that's best strength is getting the mana you need to play the spells you have, so a preordain or ponder is better imo)
-2 liliana (the discard isn't good enough, and neither is the tutor, which is why she's a very cheap ($ wise card) card and also rarely played)

-3 duress (I just feel that inquisition is much better, and the noncreatures spells around aren't whats going to be killing you (besides tempered steel and pyromancers, and splinter twin, but those are all also hit by inquisition (or at least the exarch is))
-3 tezzeret's gambit (just better draw cards, and with what i'm taking out, the prolif isn't worth it)
-2 frost breath (there's just better cards out there)


So now to move onto what to add. Obviously we'll want 26 lands, and you forgot Marsh flats, so throw those in there. Also, colonnade isn't as good imo as tar pit, so i'd drop that and run the later.
Next, we'll need new win-cons, as i dropped a lot of your early game control, and a few wincons.
I'll let you pick these as you want, and remind you to realize that by t5 or 6, with 26 lands you'll have the mana for doubles, but no triples. i'll list the good ones for you here.
Baneslayer, Sunblast, Massacre Wurm, Grave Titan, Wurmcoil, Gideon (run 3 of anyways, even if not as wincon), batterskull (even t5 is a long lasting gamechanging 4/4 lifeling vig) as well as tar pit (again, probably an auto-run, but not too many.)
I'd say probably run 5-6 wincons, and possibly more if you're running sunblast as one of them, as she offers a lot of control, also, run 3 gideons anyways, but don't count him as a wincon.

Next for control. You'll want a variety of board sweeps, counters, preemptive aid, and spot removal / control. there are a few definite plays, those being 2 doom blades, 3 go for the throat, 2-3 day of judgement (depending on your meta,) 2-4 inquisition (see previous parenthesis,) 4 mana leak, 3 gideon, 2-3 o-rings. I'd do 3 o-rings as they're powerful against things you aren't controlling through tapping, like with gideon or what not. Then you can look into more spotty ones. Exarch can be flashed in to either tap down their blue mana being used for a counter, or their creature, and then uesd to block. Tumble magnet is useful, and colorless, negate and pierce are Dependant on your meta, so is demystify (instant destroy enchantment, which is solid,) gideons lawkeeper (dependent, but probably better overall against the general meta,) as well as maybe another tec edge, also a very solid play - dismember.

then you'll need CA - probably turn 1 and turn 2 CA, so you can use t3 and 4 to stabalize until t5 when the tides turn in your favor. So check out preordain 4x automatically, and maybe 2 ponder if you decide to go wild and crazy and run hawks (with marsh flats and hawks, ponder might be better) but hey, that's just me. Also, you could easily convert this to a dark blade and skip jace and hawks and replace with more control / CA to be just caw-blade + black. solid, and ponder works wonders there.


Very pro deck, esper is really THAT good - I love it. and i like your deck, but that's just my two cents.

If you like it, or even if you don't, i spent a lot of time writing that, so maybe leave my deck a comment? :) or like for like?
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=214558

hope you don't think i thought your build was bad or wong, but of course, all decks need help and hard core criticism, which is why i linked to my deck. :P rofl

yeah I definitely agree. Preordain is definitely more solid, but that's why I'm only running 2 ponders - for working with the shuffle effect provided by squad hawks.

the mana curve seems absurd. Especially with the lack of ramp here. Also - if you're going to highlight her uses in a deck for show over the internet, I love the deck! it's super fun! :D

but if you want to play the deck and show off how good she is, i'd work on a few things. Namely, providing ramp, and some of the cards you want to get the combo out faster with. Also, running protection for her is nice, as is NOT running a darksteel relic. Rofl.


Maybe try throwing 4 overgrown battlements in there, and possibly some green sun / phrexian metamorph / birds of paradise / other tapsacs to get lotus cobra. Metamorph and green sun can either provide further crazy ramp with battlements, or it can copy a titan they have, or green sun can be used to search up your star. :D birds helps with the awkward mana base, and cobra + tapsacs help with that further, and they provide awesome ramp, as well as some deck thinning. :) Not to mention overgrown battlements provides an awesome defense that can holy back opponents for a very, very long time.


Hope the comment helped! check out my new deck? Like for like? or Comment for Comment?
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=214558

Well firstly, I'm not sure if you know this or not, but It's probably fairly solid to throw the cards together in groups. for instance, if you're logged in, hit edit deck, then instead of adding act of aggression 3 times, just click on the white box in front of act of aggression, backspace the 1, and hit 3. :P rofl

but nah, i like the deck. Not sure if combust is worth main boarding, or if artillerize is, nor am i sure about all those myr there. Doesn't seem like you have a whole lots you'd want to be "ramping" into using the myr, but eh - again, that's just me.


Also, you're playing a 84 card deck. Almost every deck around is 60 cards, with around 24 lands (though crazy decks like elves can run 18, and many control decks can run 26 or 27 very, very well.) You're currently running 84 cards with 24 lands. See how there's a bit of a difference. :P lol
to put it in perspective. That's like, if you cut down to 60 cards, you'd be running 17 lands. Which, well, just blows. you'll be mana fucked ALL the freaking time. I'd just focus it a bit if you want to play it, if you were practicing for sealed events (like open 4 packs, play with a 40 card deck, generally 16-17 lands b/c the curve is so rough in those decks,) then i'd try to make a 40 card deck, with a lot more focus.

on the bright side though, it looks fun, and i'm sure you'll have a blast playing it - magic is almost always fun to play! :D


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On a side note though, if anyone reads this, or for the person who made the deck, if you appreciate my comment, maybe check out my new deck?
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=214558
give me a comment, or log in and click the black button that says "like?" i'd really appreciate it! thanks a million in advanced guys! :D

yeah I definitely agree. Preordain is definitely more solid, but that's why I'm only running 2 ponders - for working with the shuffle effect provided by squad hawks.

I'd skip over pyretic Ritual, and, depending on how you want to play, like, if you're playing on a free online simulator, run black lotus. :P lol but no, really, pyretic ritual isn't so hot, I'd just rather run more burn spells to keep them in check... But tha'ts just me, it's all up to you. lol

sorry if the comment is no help, but if it was at all, maybe check out my new deck?
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=214558

comment for comment? Or maybe Like for Like?

I agree, which is why I debated negate vs spell pierce in my SB. I think it's probably more poweful, i just don't want to have to keep 2 mana open. that's rough while I'm having to equip / lay down cards at the mana curve they're supposed to be at. especially compared to spellpiece. that extra mana is just a big deal. :/

I also think that, although it doesn't work for day or black sun, brave the elements might be a solid SB card against red to combat pyroclasm and slagstorm. Idk if it's a big enough deal though. Meh...

I really like it, however i'm not a huge fan of true conviction, and I think the deck could probably use more than 20 lands. 22 or 23 is probably where it's at. I do like more gideon over ajani, as it's not only a soldier but also a board clearer so you can swing in for game. Also, I feel like accorder paladin isn't as good as elite vanguard, and that hada freeblade probably isn't worth 4of, maybe 3of. Timely reinforcements is a very solid card, but again, probably not worth 4of - again with revoke existence not being worth 3of. probably more of a SB card imo.

Also - big deal! No adaptive automaton? That card is the one card that I thought you couldn't possibly miss. it's just that good.




also, check out my deck? I think it's kinda cool, comments? like for like? suggestion?
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=214558

I think ponder is really only best used with shuffle, and as I only have 4 cards that provide shuffle (though very consistently,) I think I like ponder beside it, just not enough to rock 4of, or even really 3of when i could play 1 more preordain over it.

i really only play limited and standard, and have lost track of whats in extended, modern, and basically every format ever. however, assuming that you can play it (it's not THAT old) no mutavault? :o what's up with that? i know it's colorless, but still, it's mutavault!

just played at a 58 man tournament, got 3rd. would have tied as i played the match for 1st, but made a play mistake, forgetting that garruk 1.0's ability was +3/+3 AND trample.... otherwise turn was over, and if i would have said everybody attacks gideon, instead of attacking with him, i would have tied... :/ bad move. :(

thanks, i've put a good bit of time into refining it, but it's only really refined for what i expect to see based on the Cincinnati results, and hasn't taken into account rouge decks i might see like grand architect or UB control (which as it didn't make it in the top 16 of cincinatti, i guess it's still a slightly rouge deck).

yeah. i see what you mean. I just don't think blood ghast and vengevine are good enough to made it amazingly worth while. especially with no dredge... it's a cool idea though! and it'll probably get much better with innistrad rumored to be a graveyard set.

i like it actually, a lot. i definitely thought of adding jace to mine, just to rub in the "you'll never attack, and NOW! neither will I!" but i really needed frost titan in there to keep the lock down targeted and deal damage, i think it worked better for my deck.

also, i think i like preordain better than monder, and cancel seems a bit weak, maybe go for spell pierce? i think i like it more... :)

titanic ultimatum? really?
i'd rather run the new garruk... for his draw ability. it's hard to keep aggro engines going, and he gives you the ability to. hard to pass up over titanic ultimatum, at least imo.

Hey you had posted on my stonehorn lockdown deck and mentioned the sundial and showed me a link to this deck you made, i left you a comment on my post talking about your deck, and here are my thoughts. :)


ehhh--- As cool as sundial is, I honeslty don't think the card is half as good as people make it out to be. Although there are brutally awesome combos with it, I agree, the decks with it, I feel, lack consistency.

as far as your deck goes, here's what I think of each card and it's interaction w/ others.

sundial + venser + card_name_here ==> exile your own shit to death, no good. but cool with a few cards in here such as exarch. which can be exiled with venser, brought back at the end of their turn, letting you tap down something to swing in with and not be blocked by gideon (but that's a stretch, and you're missing gideon. which seems awful. xD he's too good to pass up, and has too much synergy with venser.) Also. glimmerpoint is with venser only imo, no need for sundial. it seems like sundial and venser aren't meant to worth together with any other 3 card combos, which is nice.

sundial + x. ==> Cool for protecting a lot of your cards, like colonnade, and cool against their tricks like giant growth or something on a blocker maybe? or something like that. also, well, obviously godteir with mimic vat.

venser + x ==> cool to rest counters on... on wait. :( fun with glimmerpoint stag though. :D and to bounce a sun titan then be able to day then bring back your spellskite or something maybe? cool with o-ring too, to bring it back, or to exile something else. :)


Idk. I feel like the deck is trying to do a few too many different things at once and spreads itself a bit too thin. I on the other hand focused too much on attacking lockdown with a variety of cards which all work very well together and provide lots of consistency, but in doing so, opened myself up to a few cards that will wreck me.
If i were to make suggestions, I'd say to either run gideon, drop the spellskites, and play either mangnets or into the roil, possibly stonehorn. which i obviously really dig. xD lol.
Also no manlands seems odd. I just don't see many win-cons here besides after a very very long time, exiling everything they have and then swinging with sun titan...
Also maybe it might not be a bad idea to throw out or less of mana leak? I find that in my stonehorn lockdown deck, mana leak shows up too inconsistently for me to make the most of it. I ran up to 4 just recently, aka, today, to see if that helped and it did a little, but as this isn't a counter-magic control like UB or UW or UU (haha) normally is, leak is just too little counter magic to rely on it, it'd be better imo to just have something awesome and hold onto in your hand bluffing it as a counter. XD

also - i guess i didn't notice this before, but being able to end your turn is awesome alone in a control deck. honestly. they go to cast something EOT or whatever, and you're just like no. but abolisher would be more useful than sundial for that, or honestly, you could just run didmember. xD or baneslayer or something... idk...


All in all though, I like the deck, I just think it's spreading itself too thin. I'd focus it down to one form of control with a minor splash of another, and add a few more reliable win cons and even out the curve of your control. where as mine starts at 3, and is very slow (though we've had to get used t3 4/4 LL Vig lately... control hasn't always been like that, btw...)

So basically.
1. Focus things down. :)
2. Ways to protect your focus while hurting them at the same time. (sometimes best D is a good O, remember that [aka, sometimes dismember is better D than leak]) :D
3. add more win cons. xD


also, when talking about speed up there, remember for some of your combos to work you'll have to pay for sundial every turn.... :( making it even worse. xD


I mean, the interactions are very cool, don't get me wrong, just the deck doesn't seem to have a /real/ wincon, and seems way too slow, and without the control to support the speed. other than that, i like it. :)

surewhynot, normally, i'm a huge fan of the decks you make. whether they're fun goffy decks, or just god damn broken as hell decks, but honestly, this one doesn't have a ton of appeal to me.
It seems lacking (probably in the reanimate department, but also the big creature department. there's a lot of ramp in there and not much to ramp into)
maybe try running jund and throwing glissa and sarkhan in there?

secondly, i'm not sure about this deck, exactly, is "blatant" cheating. It looks like a GB ramp deck, but with zombie infestation (and no draw to suppot it...)

besides that though, I really do like the idea behind the deck, and normally i think you hit the nail dead on, but this one might be your first miss in a while. just me though... care to help explain it a bit to me? is there something about the graveyard in here that's actually cheating? all I see is glissa and vingevine... and those are the graveyard parts. the rest of the deck doesn't even feel very strong, much less cheating.... :(

and like i said, when i saw it was t2 graveyard deck called blatant cheating i was SUPER happy... then i got a bit disappointed because I normally expect such great work from you. xD you've been too good before, and set your standards too high. :P

by mirror match i meant mono red in general, not just goblins. there's still RDW and big red to worry about, and arc trail doesn't do much against those...

oh shit man, so yoiu actually did that well?!? :D
Yeah, the cards for me come in tuesday, and there's free standards around me on thursday nights, friday nights, and sunday afternoons. I'll be going to all of them to play test the deck.

I'm not sure how I feel about leyline SB, or really what i'd take out, but i'm 100% sure that i need to drop some crap SB to run more anti-enchantment mainboard. ascension and tempered steel can just be too much of a beating, and if it's instant speed it will help with the twin matchup too. very versatile.

and yeah, it's really fun to see people just scoop after they see one of the combos going and the synergy created mid-late game. my friend plays vamps and was super excited to have a pulsetracker, kalstria highborn, and 2 nighthawks with 3 lands in his opening hand. then after game 4, so on game 5, i exarched him t3 with flash in and blocked and he said "you know what man. fuck it. i'm not playing you anymore."

because day'ing away a primeval and a lotus cobra is the worst (good matchup) targets for day. other than that, i've still got taking out 4 vamps, 4 artifacts from tempered steel, a hero of bladehold and some other white weenies, etc. etc. etc...

other than that, I adore the day + gideon combo as it's so versatile and generally just a very very powerful combo, not to mention it lets me swing in with my colonnade, frost titan, and what untroubled by blockers. day + gideon + all attack + frost titan to tap down a land to hold back bigger threats, then swing in for 6 with gideon, swing again next turn with gideon and with frost titan tapping down his new creature, rinse and repeat for the win. Day is a big part of those gameplanes.

honestly though, I really would love to drop a few things to try to run anti-artifact/enchantment mainboard.


As i'm sure you noticed testing it out, UB control is my worst matchup, probably followed by pyromancer's ascension, then UW control with a low creature base, then BB control (not BB aggro) then splinter twin, then valakut, then creature heavy decks just the shit living shit rocked out of them.

However, just because those are the list of my worst matchups, besides pyromancer's ascension, these decks still run creatures, and that's their win-con. I can still very quickly and efficiently remove that win-con from the game, and slowly win the game.

Looking at the scg open this weekend (16 + 17th) all but 2 of the decks in the top 16 had creatures as their win-con. one being a heavy planeswalker UW control and the other being pyro twin. day of judgement is often a very, very powerful choice. even if it only hits 1 big target and 2 weak targets, that's still 100% worth it. Also - the build here is more FNM based, and I expect to see a lot of heavy creature decks at my FNM. (though I do have plans to develop the deck competitively too, switching a few things here and there)